Speaker 1:

The views and opinions expressed in this podcast by the host and guests may or may not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Miami University.

Speaker 2:

I am going into my last semester of chemical engineering.

Speaker 3:

I'm a senior journalism major.

Speaker 4:

And I'm minoring in supply chain and operations management.

Speaker 5:

I'm a biochemistry major.

Speaker 6:

Classes are going great, extracurriculars are going great.

Speaker 7:

I'm an RA on campus.

Speaker 6:

I'm thriving.

Jason Meggyesy:

Hi, I'm Jason Meggyesy and this is Major Insight. This is the podcast where we talk college life with amazing students about how to find your place and purpose on campus.

Gretchen Spenn is highly involved in both the academic and cultural sides of campus life. 

As a double Kinesiology and Nutrition major, she is combining her interests in sport and physical activity with a deeper understanding of how nutritional needs can change as we grow and age.

Gretchen is also the Vice President The Native American Student Association, and she’s a member of Miami Tribe of Oklahoma, which is commemorating a 50-year-long partnership with Miami University this year.

As part of the Myaamia Center on campus, Gretchen is also helping to strengthen this partnership between the two Miamis by promoting the language, culture, knowledge, and values of the Myaamia people.

Jason Meggyesy:

We are here with a very special guest. We are celebrating the 50th anniversary of the partnership between Miami University and the Myaamia Tribe of Oklahoma. I'm going to start off with the question that I like to ask everybody. Who are you?

Gretchen Spenn:

My name is Gretchen Spenn and I'm a junior double majoring in kinesiology and nutrition.

Jason Meggyesy:

You are involved with the Myaamia Center, is that correct?

Gretchen Spenn:

Yes. Actually, I'm a member of the Miami Tribe of Oklahoma.

Jason Meggyesy:

Awesome.

Gretchen Spenn:

It is a center for the Miami Tribe of Oklahoma here on campus, where we're hosting the Myaamia Revitalization Program. Through that program, college Myaamia students are given a scholarship to come to Miami and here we kind of delve into who we are as Myaamia people. Like, what does that mean? Then we learn about traditional culture, culture today and we get to learn the Myaamia language, like how we live. They never really officially teach you what it is to be Myaamia. I think as you progress through the program and mature as a person, and then also you're gaining a ton of knowledge and the overarching theme is learning what it is to be a Myaamia person.

Jason Meggyesy:

Yeah. It seems like through that, since they don't give you a hardcore definition of what this means, it can be different for everyone. Right?

Gretchen Spenn:

Exactly. Yeah.

Jason Meggyesy:

What does that mean for you?

Gretchen Spenn:

Well, I grew up in Fort Wayne, Indiana, which is kind of a hub for the Miami community. It's where traditionally the tribe was located, here in the Miami, what's it called? The Wabash Valley.

Jason Meggyesy:

Miami Valley? The Wabash?

Gretchen Spenn:

Yeah. The Wabash River Valley. Yeah. Luckily I kind of grew up knowing that I'm Myaamia, but I think I didn't have the same understanding. When I was little I'd do the thing in class, when you're learning about Native American tribes and that sort of thing, I'd be like, "Oh, well I'm part Indian and my sixth great uncle is Chief Richardville." I came from a very stereotypical understanding to where I was like, I'm part this and this like way back when. Then I think when I came here and started interacting with the program, it kind of shifted the way I thought about it. I learned to be like, I'm not part Myaamia, I am Myaamia. I'm a very active member of this community. This is who I am, not just a part of me. That's a huge bridge to make.

Jason Meggyesy:

Yeah. Before it was maybe a fun fact that you had to share.

Gretchen Spenn:

Exactly. Yeah.

Jason Meggyesy:

Now it's more you feel that you're part of that culture

Gretchen Spenn:

I think another shift that was made, I'm a very white presenting person, blonde hair, blue eyes. When I used to drop that, "I'm part Miami." They'd be like, "Okay. Sure." It got to the point where I'd expect that reaction. I would just stop bringing it up, volunteer that information, or really talked about it. Then when I started learning more, when I started being able to speak some of the language, it shifted and I gained that confidence in being Myaamia.

Jason Meggyesy:

Yeah. What is your favorite Myaamia tradition?

Gretchen Spenn:

It's not something we do on campus, but in Miami, Oklahoma, where we have our land and the headquarters is located, we do annual gatherings. It's really cool because especially the Winter storytelling gatherings, we can take buses from here to Oklahoma. That's my favorite cultural event that I get to go to because then it's not just like Miami University Myaamia people or the people from Fort Wayne, it's everyone from everywhere coming to Oklahoma. Then we do our big events. I think the last time I went to the summer annual gathering, we got to do elections. That was the first time I got to vote for chief and business committee and stuff like that.

Jason Meggyesy:

Oh word.

Gretchen Spenn:

Yeah.

Jason Meggyesy:

Before we get into your college path experience, I didn't know that they elected chief. Is that like a presidential term type of thing? Or how does that kind work?

Gretchen Spenn:

It's pretty much the same as like a US election. Actually, fun fact, the Miami Tribe of Oklahoma is like a federally recognized tribe. We have a constitution and we have levels of sovereignty that make us like a sovereign nation. Yeah, voting for chief is a part of that. A really other cool element about that is when we do athletic events and things like that on campus, sometimes the business committee and Chief Langford will come from Miami, Oklahoma to here. It's like a cool connection between the two.

Jason Meggyesy:

Yeah. That's awesome. That's awesome. Now on a more career based path, tell me when nutrition and kinesiology kind of came onto your radar as a career path that you could possibly pursue.

Gretchen Spenn:

When I committed to coming to Miami, I had it in my brain that I was going to major in creative writing and be an author. Honestly, they were not at the front of my brain. I came to orientation and I was like, mmm, this isn't for me. I started classes as gen ed and then I think kinesiology was just something that felt right. I've always kind of been a really just active kid who likes playing sports. I liked being outside. Exercise and exercise science, it felt right. I started taking a couple classes and then I decided to add kinesiology. Then I ended up in a entry level nutrition class and the more we went through the material and the more I learned about nutrition, I got more and more interested in it. I was like, "This could be something that I want to get a lot more involved in."

Jason Meggyesy:

It wasn't until you came to school that you really understood what you were trying to do. Right?

Gretchen Spenn:

Yeah. Pretty much.

Jason Meggyesy:

All right. Cool. Now, tell me about your senior year experience. Obviously Miami's in Ohio, you're from Indiana. Why was Miami ultimately the place for you?

Gretchen Spenn:

Miami was always on my radar because part of being in the revitalization program means getting a really nice scholarship to come here because they want Myaamia kids to be in the program. That was a huge factor for me in deciding where I went. I think one downside was that it was out of state. It was two and a half hours away from my home. I only knew one person who was going there. No one else from my high school was going there. That was a bit of a scary thing. You know?

Jason Meggyesy:

Yeah. How did you work through that and what things did you do to become completely acclimated with the environment that you were in?

Gretchen Spenn:

I think the big thing that really helped is knowing that pretty much every other incoming freshman is also looking to make friends. Everyone is looking for friends. They all want to meet new people. I think for me, I had to overcome the shyness that I had and I had to just force myself to talk to the kid next to me in class and being like, "Hey, I'm Gretchen, what's your name? What's your major? Do you want to go get Starbucks and study for this class together?" Even if it didn't work out with that person, I started feeling more and more comfortable talking to strangers.

Jason Meggyesy:

Yeah. More people appreciate that than other people probably know.

Gretchen Spenn:

Yeah.

Jason Meggyesy:

Like you said, everybody's looking to find somebody to at least hang out with for the first couple weeks, even if it's not a friendship that lasts.

Gretchen Spenn:

Right. I know for me when I would like feel a little too anxious to like talk to someone, as soon as someone talked to me, I was like, "Oh, thank god, a friend."

Jason Meggyesy:

The weight is lifted off your shoulders.

Gretchen Spenn:

Exactly. Yeah. It's going to be fine.

Jason Meggyesy:

Yeah. Obviously the Myaamia Center and Miami recruited you to the university to be a part of this organization revitalization program. Tell me how you started to first interact with it your first year on campus and how you've grown through this program.

Gretchen Spenn:

It was a really cool opportunity. On my move in day, I moved into my dorm, my parents left and then we kind of had a mini Myaamia orientation to where I got to meet all of the kids in my year. Then, we also had some sophomores there who took us on tours around the campus. One of, she's a senior now and I'm going to miss her so much, but the best piece of advice she told me freshman year-

Jason Meggyesy:

Who is this?

Gretchen Spenn:

Megan Secculech.

Jason Meggyesy:

Okay.

Gretchen Spenn:

Yeah.

Jason Meggyesy:

Shout out to her.

Gretchen Spenn:

Shout out to Megan, savior. But use Google Maps. They have the walk feature. Just type in the name of the building, plug it into Google Maps and you're set.

Jason Meggyesy:

Yeah.

Gretchen Spenn:

It was the most helpful piece of advice. I literally did that today finding this building.

Jason Meggyesy:

Yeah. This is your third year on campus.

Gretchen Spenn:

It is.

Jason Meggyesy:

And you were saying, it was between two buildings that you are familiar with and you didn't even know that it was a thing.

Gretchen Spenn:

Yeah, exactly. Google Maps, godsend.

Jason Meggyesy:

I definitely feel that because I think my freshman year I might have walked into a class that I wasn't supposed to. I know that's the most cliche college thing ever, but it like really happens.

Gretchen Spenn:

It happens. Yeah.

Jason Meggyesy:

Yeah. Yeah. How are you engaged with the center now?

Gretchen Spenn:

To be a part of the program, there's three years of classes that you go to. Each year has a different theme to it. My freshman year, it was primarily focused on learning the Myaamia language. The second year it was on sovereignty and the legal aspect of what it is to be a federally recognized tribe. Then, this year we're learning about ecology and the ways in the past that we've interacted with our environment and then how that lives on through today and technology advancements, what that means for us now. I think that's another huge thing that we kind of learn throughout the total years of the course is that Myaamia traditions is not like past tense. The Myaamia Tribe is not a past tense, history book community. It is very much a living, breathing part of who we are. Then currently on top of doing classes, I'm also the current VP of NASA, which is the Native American Student Association.

Jason Meggyesy:

Yeah.

Gretchen Spenn:

It's just a student run club on campus and we're open to like all Miami students, especially Myaamia students. We have majority of Myaamia kids, but also we have some indigenous people from other tribes. It's just a way to hang out outside the classroom, talk about what's going on here, what's going on in Oklahoma, what's going on in other indigenous communities.

Jason Meggyesy:

Yeah. I love the point that you made about the tribe and the culture not being in the past, it's now. I think that's something that a lot of people disconnect.

Gretchen Spenn:

Yeah.

Jason Meggyesy:

Because you don't talk about black culture in a past tense context all the time. Right? Or Italian culture, but it seems to get like that with Native American culture. How do you combat some of that conversation whenever it comes up?

Gretchen Spenn:

Just a big part is helping educate. I think a lot of people get it in their head when you talk about being Native American, you think of the Plains Indians with the leather outfits and the head dresses and all that sort of thing. That's fine. Also, being Native American very much transcends that. The cultural aspects, like the stories, the language, they're all very different. I don't know, when people are like, "So you're part Indian." This is a very recent interaction I had with someone recently, but they were like, I'm quoting here, it was bizarre, but they were like, "So do you wear war paint and do you chant?"

Jason Meggyesy:

Oh my goodness.

Gretchen Spenn:

It's hard to explain it to people when they're like, "So do you live in teepees?"

Jason Meggyesy:

Yeah.

Gretchen Spenn:

It can be difficult. It can be really frustrating, but I think part of it is just educating where you can and being like, "Yeah, we have a Myaamia revitalization program on campus." It's things like this, just the conversation that we're having. It's just kind of a big part of breaking down the stereotypes and helping people realize that indigenous communities are very much a current thing.

Jason Meggyesy:

Yeah. I think as a black person, I love having those conversations because like you said, it does educate. It does show people like, okay, this is a teaching moment. Do you appreciate those times where you can act as that teacher?

Gretchen Spenn:

Yeah. Oh yeah. A majority of the time, like 99% of the time, people are excited to learn from you, which is really nice. Then when we do have difficult moments, like a couple of years ago, just because the school used to be the Miami Redskins and not the Red Hawks, at hockey games there was an issue with the student section would whoop at a certain point in the game. They start whooping, which is offensive to Native American people.

Jason Meggyesy:

Yeah.

Gretchen Spenn:

The staff at the Myaamia Center. They're like, you do not have to like combat this yourself. There's no pressure or no need for you to stand up and go-

Jason Meggyesy:

"Stop this right now."

Gretchen Spenn:

Exactly. They're like, pass it onto us. That's why we're here. We're your support network. We will take care of it and take the steps needed to start solving this.

Jason Meggyesy:

Yeah. That's a beautiful thing. That's awesome. That's awesome that there's this web of support.

Gretchen Spenn:

Yeah.

Jason Meggyesy:

That kind of leads into my next question is what ways have you seen this partnership between the university and the tribe be perpetuated and lifted up?

Gretchen Spenn:

In my experience, the athletic department here has been a huge support, like they're very excited to be working with the Myaamia program and the Myaamia students here. There are pretty frequent occasions where they'll have one sporting game devoted to a Myaamia theme. They'll put on Myaamia jerseys with the Myaamia heritage logo which is shared between the university and the tribe, which is very cool. They'll have that logo on them and in Goggin on the hockey rink, the logo is on all of the seats and it's up huge on the wall. I think they've been very excited to uplift and demonstrate the connection that they have with the tribe. Also we do have the 50th year anniversary, so the school has been advertising a lot more. You can see our Myaamia heritage logo merchandise in Brick and Ivy. It's really cool to see. It's exciting. Also, we just did, this is where more of my nutrition major came in which is pretty cool where Western dining hall did a Myaamia themed lunch.

Jason Meggyesy:

Oh, that's awesome.

Gretchen Spenn:

Yeah. I got to research traditional Myaamia foods like miincipi, which is like Myaamia corn. I got to write a couple paragraphs about how traditionally we harvested corns and just other food elements and then Western dining hall made Myaamia food and served it at a lunch. That was a really cool thing to do.

Jason Meggyesy:

Yeah. The best thing that I think is going on is that Miami's not running away from their past like a lot of these organizations and sports teams and things in the recent news that have changed over, they just want to wipe away everything that they had going on. Maybe it's because they didn't have this legitimate connection. Maybe that's what it is. There is no real history there. What we can say, I think we can most agree is that Miami is trying to cultivate and not bury what was going on and really nurture this partnership.

Gretchen Spenn:

Yeah. I think one of the more exciting things about that, I totally agree with what you said. Also there aren't a lot of other universities in the US or like other programs like this. I'm very super lucky to be a part of the revitalization program. It's really cool and exciting to be here at Miami and experience it because there aren't a lot of other indigenous communities that have this resource.

Jason Meggyesy:

Yeah. Before we move on, you keep mentioning this logo. For those that don't really know what it looks like, you want to explain how it looks and what it means?

Gretchen Spenn:

Yeah. The Myaamia heritage logo is not copied off of, but it reflects and symbolizes like Myaamia ribbon work. It has two elongated diamonds that meet at a square in the middle and in the middle of the square, there's a red circle and the circle was meant to symbolize a fire, because fire needs tending and there needs to be work on both the university side and the Miami tribe side to keep the relationship between the two living and breathing and healthy and continuing to burn for future incoming Myaamia students. It's really cool to see.

Jason Meggyesy:

Yeah.

Gretchen Spenn:

Yeah.

Jason Meggyesy:

All right. Now on the academic tip, because not all your time is spent with this organization.

Gretchen Spenn:

Right.

Jason Meggyesy:

What kind of classes are you taking? What are you enjoying? Any teachers you want to shout out?

Gretchen Spenn:

Yeah. On the kinesiology side, because I have to separate them in my mind, otherwise it gets crazy sometimes. I'm taking anatomy and anatomy lab. Also in the past, I think last semester I took, it's a class about how the human body moves and that class was very, very exciting, Dr. William Berg, he's my shoutout. He was so cool. You can just like tell that he is so incredibly knowledgeable, knows so much about the human body and he gets really excited when he's teaching. Those are the best kind of teachers because then you don't really feel like you're in class. You're like, oh I get to learn today.

Gretchen Spenn:

Then, on nutrition, I'm in life stage nutrition, which basically goes along with the name. You learn from when a woman is pregnant what nutritious needs she has, what kind of diseases may accompany a poor diet and that sort of thing. Then, you learn about infancy and the nutrition with that and then being a toddler and then being an adolescent and then a teen and then a young adult and then an older adult. Then I'm also in nutrition and disease prevention. That's a nutrition lab. Phillips Hall has a really elaborate food science lab.

Jason Meggyesy:

Yeah.

Gretchen Spenn:

Those have been super fun classes. It's been really cool to get in there, kind of experience what it would be to work in the food science industry in a kitchen. Those are really cool.

Jason Meggyesy:

That's awesome. Now in a perfect world, where does this take you?

Gretchen Spenn:

That's a very good question and I'm not exactly sure.

Jason Meggyesy:

Yeah.

Gretchen Spenn:

Right now my plan is to graduate, get my degrees, my undergrad in kinesiology and nutrition. I'm kind of planning on taking a gap year just to kind of explore those.

Jason Meggyesy:

Yeah. Recalibrate a little bit.

Gretchen Spenn:

Yeah. Yeah. Get into the workforce with one of them and feel it out. See what I like about the industry, what I don't like about it. That's a really nice thing about nutrition especially that I've learned a lot of people in the nutrition program here graduate and then go on to become a registered dietician. What that means is that you get your undergrad in nutrition with a concentration in dietetics, and then you would go on to get your masters and take an internship program. Then, the really nice thing about being an RD is that there are endless possibilities that you can do with that. You can do a clinical setting and within the clinical setting you can do neonatal or pediatrics or renal and kidney and transplants. I'm not sure what I want to do yet, but I think the possibilities are really endless.

Jason Meggyesy:

Yeah. Kind of rounding it out and thinking on a broader level, how has being involved with this organization in the revitalization project impacted your overall experience here at school?

Gretchen Spenn:

Being in the heritage project is a huge part of what I do, who I interact with. It's a really big part of my life here on campus. It started out as making friends, having that smaller group of people made it a lot easier just to talk to them and make friends. Then I think as I grew in understanding my Myaamia identity, I also had that parallel growing as a person. I've learned so much about myself through that. And then also it's helped me get involved in ways that I don't think I would've found otherwise, because I do a lot of intermural sports here which is so incredibly fun. I highly recommend. We have Myaamia broomball team and a curling team and a volleyball team. That's been super fun. I am in other clubs I'm in the snap, the nutrition club and things like that. Being in the Myaamia community, it doesn't just stop at the classroom. It doesn't stop at like extracurricular things that we go to. It's very much a community. It's just been a huge, impactful part of being here.

Jason Meggyesy:

Yeah. Yeah. I love what you said about how it doesn't stop at the classroom. Off of that, I want to get your thoughts on how do you plan on continuing to cultivate this self-growth and this connection with your culture after you leave the university and after you leave the program?

Gretchen Spenn:

That's a really good question because that's kind of the whole point of having the revitalization program is so that not only are you, the student, learning, but you're going home and teaching it to your family and to your Myaamia relatives who didn't have that same privilege of going here and learning it themselves. The point is to breathe life in education and this better understanding of what it is to be Myaamia and breathe that back into the community. Because up until really recently, like late 1900s hundreds, there was a time period where pretty much the culture just went dormant. You know? I think we had forced removal from the Wabash River Valley and then we got sent to Kansas and then uprooted from Kansas again and sent to Oklahoma. Then it got to the point where it was kind of a generational thing but it was bad to be indigenous and you didn't talk about it and you were a US citizen and that was the priority.

Gretchen Spenn:

It kind of got to the point where the language wasn't taught, the culture wasn't taught and then along comes Darrell Baldwin, the literal certified genius who was able to somehow read these recorded documents from the French who would stay with the Myaamia community and observe. We had those documents and then we had recordings of elders speaking Myaamia. He was somehow miraculously able to bring back the language and then it became, well, how do we teach this to people so that more Myaamia people learn?

Jason Meggyesy:

Yeah.

Gretchen Spenn:

That's how the heritage program came about here. The point of it is to, for me, it's to learn for myself and then go home and teach my mom who's Myaamia and teach my cousins who are Myaamia so that it reaches the whole Myaamia community. You know?

Jason Meggyesy:

Yeah.

Gretchen Spenn:

One quote that I remember really well from class a couple years ago was it's up to my generation. You decide what happens with this, you can either not teach it and it just dies with you or you keep it going so that your kids in the next generation have this sense of cultural identity and like what it means to be Myaamia.

Jason Meggyesy:

Yeah. That's probably got to be both anxiety inducing and super exciting at the same time. Right?

Gretchen Spenn:

Yeah. Yeah. It is exactly both. It's a responsibility. It's like the Peter Parker.

Jason Meggyesy:

Yeah, exactly.

Gretchen Spenn:

With great power comes great responsibility.

Jason Meggyesy:

I love that.

Gretchen Spenn:

But it's cool. It's something that I will gladly do.

Jason Meggyesy:

Yeah. Most definitely. I think that you will reach all those goals just from the way you talk. You're very proud of who you are.

Gretchen Spenn:

Yeah.

Jason Meggyesy:

I can tell that you take pride in all the things that you're involved with.

Gretchen Spenn:

Well, thank you.

Jason Meggyesy:

Yeah. The last thing that I need you to do is I know you speak a little bit of the language. Can you say thank you for listening in the native language?

Gretchen Spenn:

I don't know the for listening part, but neewe for listening guys.

Jason Meggyesy:

All right.

Gretchen Spenn:

Thank you.

Jason Meggyesy:

I appreciate you coming on.