Career Convos Podcast

Sarah Keefe:

Hello everyone, and welcome to career Convos. I'm your host Sarah Keefe, and I'm the Associate Director of Professional Development for the Farmer School of Business here at Miami University today. We have the pleasure of speaking with CJ Walker. CJ graduated from the Farmer School of Business in 2022 with a degree in Business Economics. CJ, could you tell us a little bit about the company you work for and the role that you are currently in?

CJ Walker:

Yes. So I am currently a research analyst at the Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland, and I've been here since I graduated, actually a couple years ago.

Sarah Keefe:

Nice, great. So thank you for being here today. We always love talking with our alumni at Miami University, especially our Farmer School of Business alumni. It's always really exciting to see what our students are doing beyond graduation and what companies they're getting involved in, what roles they're doing. So to kind of talk a little bit about your time with Miami. You so University, what were you involved in with Miami University? Were there any business organizations, anything like that?

CJ Walker:

Oh, that's so I'm trying to remember my resume now. I'm just like, Ooh, I get a lot starting from the top. So I was involved with the multicultural business association. I was co president, actually, during the pandemic year 2020, which was very, very interesting.

Sarah Keefe:

Oh, wow, that's impressive. Like, I wonder what that would even look like during this time.

CJ Walker:

It was an interesting time, but I had an amazing co-president, Alana Yarbrough, a great executive team, and just members who wanted to stay engaged. And I think that's what made my period as like CO President really memorable, honestly, is even like, even though we're kind of like online and a little bit like not having that intimate kind of like relationship during the group meetings, we're still able to hold that community throughout all of it. But yeah, on top of that, I was part of the Center for Business Leadership as a student fellow. I also was an undergraduate associate for business 106 as well as for Principles of Microeconomics, so econ 201, I also did supplemental instruction for econ to avoid my senior year is that everything not yet. 

Okay, so moving forward, I was also part of the voter Reserve College challenges for both 2020 and 2021 where we got national finalists just in 2020 and the national semifinals in 2021 I'm trying to think there's anything else I did at Miami. Those were all the things I did within, like, kind of the business school realm. But at Miami, I was a brother at Beta Theta Pi. I was also part of, I actually was the accompanist and piano player for my university gospel singers choir. I also co-founded the Miami University recreational piano society. You're getting a sense of what I was doing outside my time in business school was a lot of music. And yeah, those are kind of the things I can remember off the top of my head. I'm probably missing like one or two other things, but very heavily involved during that time.

Sarah Keefe:

So to clarify, you weren't sleeping at Miami University.

CJ Walker:

Yeah, listen, six hours of sleep was more than enough. You know,

Sarah Keefe:

Very impressive. That's very impressive. You were involved in just so many different organizations, so many different things. Was there anything that you took away from being involved in all these extracurriculars that have really assisted you with your career and your job right now?

CJ Walker:

Yeah, and I think, and we talked about this before, in other conversations, but I feel that being a college student, a lot of the things that you take with you into, you know, corporate America, or into your career, they do STEM a lot from both of your your actual major, in your classwork, but also a lot from, like, The organizations are part of and I think for me personally, I found that being part of a lot of those organizations, or doing a lot of those kind of, like challenges and all those other things were a lot more beneficial than I would say, like my major was at the end of the day, and a lot of those characteristics were kind of just like teamwork or kind of organization, how To lead a meeting, how to convey, like a messaging properly. Like you do get to do some of those things within, like a classroom setting, but when you're actually doing it to get to a certain type of goal in an organization, the parameters are very different. Everything the way that things are set up are very much more relatable to what ends up happening in your career over time. So I think, like those kind of, like real aspects, really, I did take away a lot more than, you know, just being in the classroom doing, like economic models and doing all the math there, instead of actually, like applying it to, you know, actual things that you know happen in everyday life.

Sarah Keefe:

So, yeah, I completely agree that's such a great perspective to have. Have, because that's just something that we talk about with students, if you get to learn all of these great skill sets and hard skills in the classroom, but actually making them applicable to the workforce. So when you're actually, like, working day to day, just how different a nine to five job looks in comparison to that. It's very different.

CJ Walker:

Yeah, I would say, like, honestly, I didn't realize how many meetings you could have in a day until coming here to corporate. Then you realize you're like, Oh, I'm just in a meeting for like, most of the day today. That's interesting.

Sarah Keefe:

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think it makes you think about work culture a lot, too. That's something for sure, that I talk to students about greatly. Like, sometimes, if I have an accounting student or someone that's working with numbers a lot, they'll kind of like talk about a job they want to do. I'm like, but it seems like you really enjoy people. So you need to make sure that that is involved within your day to day job somehow, or you're only going to get you're going to get bored with just doing that one aspect that's interesting to you

CJ Walker:

exactly, and even, like, as like an econ person who's doing, like, Economic Research, I think the people really make more so the job than actual ability to do research. And you could do research anywhere in my profession, but the people are really what make it, you know, enjoyable. They make it more kind of worthwhile than just, like, being in another place where I was just doing research.

Sarah Keefe:

I completely agree. The people are everything they make a huge difference with, like your job, because they're literally a lot of the times, they're the people that you spend most of your time with, because you have a nine to five job Monday through Friday, so you'll be spending the majority of your time with them, absolutely. Well, speaking of all the extracurriculars that you were involved in, did you have any internships while you were attending Miami, and if you did, what advice do you have for students who would like to obtain one or searching for internships?

CJ Walker:

Yeah, I think so. I'll first go over my internship. So I was part of a nationwide controllership internship at Nationwide Insurance that was during like a j term break. And then I also was an embark scholar with KPMG for a summer. And then I was a research intern with the Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland as well. And I think, like my biggest advice for I think I'll talk big picture and then little picture. Big Picture item when it comes to internships is it's okay to have an internship where you are trying to figure out if you don't like it or not. Like for example, my first internship was nationwide. Was more of an accounting internship, and I knew I wasn't too I wasn't sure if I wanted to do accounting as like, another degree or another co major. So I was like, let me try out this internship to see if that's something I want to do. And although the people are fantastic, I found the work wasn't really what I wanted to do. And so I found that to be a very useful experience, because that really determined it for me in terms of what career path I wanted to do at the end of the day. So I think those things are very, very important as college because I think we have an idea of, oh, I need to, like, intern with JP Morgan, or I need to be with Goldman Sachs. And it's kind of like you can intern with like, other organizations, and not just the big brand names, you can still get a good amount of the experience you need in order to repel yourself to those types of roles later down the road. So that's, like the big picture. And I think the advice for like, kind of a mini, like little picture is, especially if you're a freshman or sophomore, still go out and get your name out there to at least indicate to these recruiters that you're interested. A lot of recruiters stay on, like, the same type of schools multiple years in a row. So you'll be able to start a file with them early on, and so you can build up that reputation with them to then all of a sudden be like, Hey, I'm now at that you know, I'm now incoming Junior, incoming senior, and I want to apply for internship. We've been talking like every single chance at the career fairs or spring career fairs, and getting your face in front of those things is going to be super, super impactful to open doors later down the road for internships and eventually job opportunities.

Sarah Keefe:

Yeah, absolutely, I completely agree. I speak with students who sometimes have their sights set on it has to be this internship, and I have to only be doing this role. And I tell them all the time, I'm like, You have to understand, like, once you get your foot in the door, then your foot is in the door. So exactly, that's the important part. Is like building your resume and getting those different internships and getting those different like, experiences, yeah, exactly, absolutely, especially experiences that give you good, transferable skills. That's what I always talk about with students. 

CJ Walker:

 Exactly, It's kind of like for me, it's kind of, I was able to take a lot of the skills I had, like nationwide, and transfer them over to KPg, because they were kind of like similar aspects of like accounting and things like that. But I think, like at the end of the day, it really does more. Depends on what you will be doing versus the name of the company you're doing with.

Sarah Keefe:

Yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah. I completely agree. So that kind of gets me into the next question. So you were speaking with recruiters, like, one of the biggest areas where you were speaking with recruiters, you were saying, was at the career fair, yeah, any resources that you utilized at Miami that you would recommend students take advantage of during their academic career, that could really assist them with their post graduation career?

CJ Walker:

Oh, absolutely. I cannot tell you enough how thankful I am for a lot of the resources there, and I think a lot of it comes from like, you know, our career services, like, just the the prep work that goes through the resumes, like the mock interviews, a mock elevator pitch, all three of those things. Like, building those up is going to be super, super impactful when you kind of start looking for a job in those things, especially if you can get your star method down. Like, yes, that will be perfect. And I think a lot of those, you know, a lot of those resources that Miami has can sometimes be under utilized, but if you are able to use it at least, like even a couple times, I think every student should just go there at least twice before, you know, trying it out for, you know, a career fair, spring career fair. But just use having that resource, and using that resource is super impactful for just my own development in terms of where I ended up, how I can now talk about my resume, how can talk about my career path, those things really happen a lot more as you're starting out in college then, you know, once you get that first job and start moving forward with it.

Sarah Keefe:

So yeah, I completely agree. Like, Miami has such great resources. I also talk a lot about how it has such good professors and academic advisors. I'm sure there were some professors that you had good connection with, like, while you

CJ Walker:

Oh, yes, yeah. And I think like, and that's another thing. Like, people underestimate a lot of just, like, everything at Miami, like, you know, the faculty, the staff, like, everyone's there to really help you succeed. And so be, go ahead and use it like, you know, this is how you get the big not to be that E commerce, but the biggest bang for a buck you want to be able to use everything that you can like, have the highest utility at the end of the day,

Sarah Keefe:

It's so true. Like, I always tell students that I'm like, you are paying for these resources. Like, so you should utilize them. Like, I completely agree. Like, the biggest bang for your buck, it's like, it's so true. Like, and aside from the faculty and the staff and everyone, like, really connecting with your peers, yes, oh, it's so essential. Like, I can't even begin to tell you how many opportunities the one I'm currently working that, yes, that I gave peers when I was in undergrad and graduate school, that's what I always talk to students about, is like, you have to keep in mind that your peers are moving on to do great things too.

CJ Walker:

Yes, exactly, and I, and it's funny, because I still keep in touch with a lot of my peers who were econ majors, just to say, like, oh, so what are you doing with your degree? Or kind of just see, like, what their development is. And, you know, just to, like, have kind of, like, you know, a censorship of, Am I doing the right thing? Am I not doing the right thing? You know, not trying to compare, but more so just saying, like, Oh, wow. I didn't think of like, you know, using my econ degree to go to law school, for example,

Sarah Keefe:

yes, yeah. A lot of students don't think about that with like, I talked to students. I was talking to a business econ student, like, last week, and I was just telling her how much I love the business econ degree. Yes, I think so broad, and you can do so much with it,

CJ Walker:

yeah. And I think that's why I'm so happy I did declare econ. I always tell people, I said, if, like, obviously, kind of going down, like this economic research pathway, but if I were to kind of do, like, more general business, I think I would do a double degree, like a double major in both econ and marketing with minors like accounting and entrepreneurship. Used to just get the biggest breath of everything. And I think just the beautiful aspect of econ is you can really market it however you see fit. You get the data analysis part, you kind of get a little bit of like that logical, you know, comprehensive thinking part of it, you just end up being able to have any problems thrown your way. And you can think of a logical way to think of like, solving it in that sense. And I don't think, like a lot of other degrees, a lot of other majors can be built up that way, but econ is like, the best way to have that broadness and and apply it to so many different types of scenarios. So yeah,

Sarah Keefe:

I completely agree. It's like, and that's kind of one of the great things about a lot of the majors at FSB is that they're pretty like broad majors, like doing entrepreneurship, doing marketing, yeah, and you can do so much with them, which is really exciting. But I think sometimes for students, that aspect can be a little intimidating, because you have the you can do anything. So what do I do? Like, as I. So what do I do? It's like, you can do anything. So I'll be a mermaid. It's like somebody, yes, that was my backup career when I was a kid. That's what I wanted to be. But yeah, that kind of gets us into so talking about what you're doing with a business, yeah, and like, so if you could tell us about your company and your work and kind of, like the role and your responsibilities of your current job, and like where you're going, like you're in this huge, exciting transition of your job and your life right now, which is really awesome,

CJ Walker:

Yeah, sure, so I guess, like my current role at the Federal Reserve Bank in Cleveland. And for those who probably are kind of like the Federal Reserve, I've heard that name before. It's kind of part of the general central banking system of the United States, um. And so my role is to actually be supportive of our research team, which is mainly built up PhD economists with backgrounds in economics, finance, math, statistics, and really making sure that we are, you know, doing all like the, you know, I don't want to say like the not so cool work, but it is kind of like the data cleaning the visualization of data points and markers for them to help analyze and kind of come up with policy recommendations for, you know, our president so then she can report it to, you know, the Rest of the central banking committee that we have. So my role is pretty much a lot of, you know, supportive policy stuff, but it's also kind of like creating new research. So kind of looking into neighborhood sorting patterns, for example, of like, how do kids who might have like a black or Hispanic background differ from those who might have a white background, and seeing like, what their socioeconomic status kind of ends up being later down the road, or things kind of like labor force, kind of like, you know, changes through the business cycle. So I get to do a lot of that cool research on the side to inform the public, as well as getting to do a lot of, you know, policy support research there as well. And I think the original question was, how do I prepare myself for this role, correct? If I remember correctly,

Sarah Keefe:

Yeah.

CJ Walker:

And I was talking, I feel like I was talking way too much about, like, what my job was. I was like, Oh, am I losing track of the question itself?

Sarah Keefe:

No, you're still with us. You're still there.

CJ Walker:

Um. And so I think that the biggest thing that you know Miami did help with was kind of having a general understanding of how to conduct myself in a professional setting. So I think, like, one of the biggest stories I can talk about is, you know, I was, I remember, kind of being in our group meeting with the multicultural Association when we heard that it was going to be shutting down. Everyone's kind of like, what do we do? What do we do? And for me, I was just like, Alright, we're going to need to stay calm. We're going to establish enough calmness. We're going to come up with a plan. We're just going to, you know, kind of just started problem solving right then and there. Of like, a situation that was happening, and that was, like, in an org, literally, in my, you know, sophomore entering junior year. Fast forward now to, like, a couple of weeks ago, and we were having a situation with like, you know, our intern program, because I'll be departing shortly after to go on to grad school. And so I was kind of like, okay, we're going to not freak out. We're going to, you know, solve this out logically, kind of those things. And it kind of made me remember how was, like, problem solving with my group, literally, a couple years back during this pandemic, and now I'm doing it here today, kind of like problem solving, to for my own dismissal of things, and realizing the parallels of both of those things, may realize that the experiences I had at Miami really did prepare me for the experiences I would see at work. So that's kind of when I was like, Yeah, Miami was the perfect spot for me to really develop my education, and so

Sarah Keefe:

That is awesome. That is so good to hear like I'm biased, as I know you are, because I think Miami is such a wonderful school. And I've worked at several universities, and I just absolutely love being at Miami. I love them all for like, different reasons, but Miami has some of the most respectful and professional students I've ever worked with. And then something that recruiters tell us, that's something employers tell us, and yeah, it's, it's awesome to hear that you are learning like, these great skills and that you're able to apply them in real world situations. Because that's, yeah, the goal, like, that's like the main goal at the end of the day. Yeah, exactly, yeah. So we're kind of coming to an end. But I always like to wrap up with this great question for our alumni, just for engineering students, so what advice would you give yourself as a freshman?

CJ Walker:

Oh, with all the now, almost eight years from when I started. No, like six years.

Sarah Keefe:

Oh, man, oh my gosh, you're a baby. Tell you how long I've been graduated.

CJ Walker:

No, but like, just trying to think back to, you know, being wide eyed in 2018 I guess, like, and to get your. Like, general like advice to freshmen nowadays, I think it's honestly just to explore like, don't, don't feel like you have to follow like you're going to follow very closely to what other people are doing, and that might inhibit you from really getting to explore a lot more of what you know, what university has to offer. And so I would encourage students to not fall for that trap. If they're curious about something, don't be afraid to go by yourself. Don't be afraid to be, you know, kind of like alone at times during your period. Because I think that I had those moments even though I had a ton of friends. So I love doing stuff. I have moments where I was doing something by myself that, you know, I probably didn't know the people I was doing it with, but, you know, I just wanted to meet new people. And I think those experiences really benefited me a lot more than kind of sticking with like friends the entire time, because your friends are always going to be there if they're real friends. But the opportunities to, like, you know, do a challenge with, like, a photo Reserve College challenge, like I did, or to, you know, be a UA for a class like those things aren't necessarily. You don't do them technically, like with a friend or something like that sometimes, but getting to do those experiences, they were just so impactful for my overall development and my overall professionalism. So I would encourage just all freshmen to just, like, go ahead and explore. Just go and see what the world is like. Go and see. You know, if you want to be part of, like, some random club that kind of looks into, you know, doing Jenga, do that Jenga club? Like, look into it. Go ahead and become an expert in it.

So, yeah,

Sarah Keefe:

I think that that is awesome advice that I always tell students that too, like, always keep an open mind. Always explore, especially when you're first starting out, like, go towards the subjects and just the different opportunities that you're the most passionate about. That's something that I always talk about. That's always a great starting point. Like, you know, listen to what classes are really speaking to you and resonating with you. Like and like, you know, join different organizations. Like, obviously, the B orgs are amazing, but join organizations out of the business school too.

CJ Walker:

Yeah, exactly. It's, I think it's kind of like the oh, I need to join a business crowd, or, oh, I need to join, like, this high school club. It's like, it's, so listen Absolutely. Try to make sure you like triumph, like, see if you can make it, but if you don't, it's not going to be the end of the world. Like you, there are so many other opportunities to really showcase the skills that you have, and so many other orgs that, you know, I don't think that if you don't get into an org or another org, it's not going to be the end all be all.

Sarah Keefe:

So, yeah, I completely agree. I think that that's really good advice. It's such good advice. Yeah, from a professional, a professional, he's been graduated all of eight years,

CJ Walker:

Like not even, I think seven,

Sarah Keefe:

You graduated in 2018.

CJ Walker:

So I started undergrad in 2018. I graduated in 2022 so it's always been about three years.

Sarah Keefe:

Oh, yeah, you just graduated. Yeah, that's so funny. You're like, jeez, all the way back then, like,

CJ Walker:

but just thinking about, like, you know, Miami was such, like, a big point for, like, my own development. So when you put it all together, like, those four years I still have been in college longer than I've been working, which is crazy to think about.

Sarah Keefe:

I know it is really wild, and it is such a like pivotal moment in our lives. That's what I always like to think about. Because I graduated all the way in 2013 so mine was a little while ago. I started college in 2009 I know, like, oh my gosh, so crazy. And then I went to graduate school. I graduated in 2017 so I tell students, like, oh, I graduate in 2017 they're like, that's not long ago. I'm like, well, it was graduate school, but it sticks with you, like it's a time in your life that really shapes you into the person you are today. Like, it's really important, even after all those years, I always think about, like, all of the amazing memories I have and stories and people that I met. And yeah, so it's just awesome that you've been able to come on our podcast today and, like, share about your time at Miami and what you're doing right now. And, yeah, we'd love to check in with you at some point again and kind of see how everything's going with graduate school and all these exciting new transitions in your life, which is awesome.

CJ Walker:

No, I appreciate you having me. I'm happy you're able to squeeze it in, as I can, you know, getting ready to move this week,

Sarah Keefe:

I know it was more so you squeezing us in. I'm like, I'm very grateful you said everything you were doing. You're like, well, I'm moving this week. I was like, Oh my god.

CJ Walker:

Well, you know, I think that's kind of just part of the entire experience. You just learn how to be flexible. You know,

Sarah Keefe:

Yes, very important, and that's very important for your job too. You have to learn to be able to adapt. And flexible, 

CJ Walker

Yeah, almost every day, yes, yes, absolutely. 

Sarah Keefe

Well, thank you again for joining us today. CJ, we appreciate you taking the time to share your career journey with us.

CJ Walker:

No, of course, and thank you again for having me here.

Sarah Keefe:

Yes, until next time, everyone, we're excited to continue having engaging career Convos, have a great day. Everybody.

Sarah Keefe:

Sarah, Hello everyone, and welcome to Career Convos. My name is Sarah Keefe, and I'm the Associate Director of Professional Development for the Farmer School of Business here at Miami University. Today we have the pleasure of speaking with Kelsey Hengerer. Kelsey is an associate on the talent acquisition team at AlphaSights. Kelsey, thank you for being with us today. Could you please tell us a little bit about the company that you work for?

Kelsey Hengerer:

Hi, Sarah, thanks so much for having me today. More than happy to share a little bit more information about AlphaSights. So AlphaSights is a global information services firm that provides clients with knowledge on demand. So our clients are top decision makers in investment management, private equity consultancies and corporations, and we connect them with industry experts with the knowledge to help them make more informed and competitive business decisions. 

Sarah Keefe:

Wonderful. Thank you so much for that summary. So AlphaSights is a really great company. They're actually going to be with us in the fall too for the career fair, so we're really excited to have them. They work closely with our students here at FSB, and a few of our students have even gone on to have internships with your company, which is really awesome and really exciting. So we were kind of talking about this a little bit before the podcast started, but we were talking about how in this day of age, students have so many questions for recruiters about how they can stand out in the industry, how when they're applying for the same job that hundreds of other students who have just graduated have applied for, how can they more likely guarantee them as a candidate that stands out? So something that I wanted to talk about is, how can students make their resume stand out, especially if they don't have much work experience? 

Kelsey Hengerer:

Yeah, this is a really great question that students ask a lot. So I think it's really important when you are creating your resume, to highlight any leadership roles, volunteer work, club involvement or class projects where you took initiative or worked with others. I think it's really important as well to use action verbs and also give examples of impact where you can so anything that shows accomplishments, rather than just listing out what you did, you know more so what you did on your own, what did you achieve? Just really quantifiable ways that you were able to make an impact in whatever you were involved in, you know, and even if you don't have a lot of work experience, even retail or service jobs can show really valuable skills like communication, time management or problem solving, and these are all skills that a lot of employers really look for and really value in candidates, especially for internships where you're not expected to come in with a ton of work experience, just being able to highlight any of those opportunities where you have been able to build any sort of transferable skills is something that's really important.

Sarah Keefe:

Yeah, absolutely. I completely agree. This is something that we talk about with students, often, especially when we're reviewing their resumes, because we also talk to them about so a question that I have that sometimes comes up, so what if a student did not get the opportunity to have an internship, and maybe they also weren't working while they were in college too? Like, is there anything else that maybe they could put on there that would help them in any way?

Kelsey Hengerer:

Definitely, I think any sort of involvement on campus is super valuable, especially any sort of leadership roles that were taken on, so being on the exec board for a club or a student organization, even within Greek life, like anything like that, showing that you, you know, took initiative, that you, you know, had drive and desire to improve some of those professional skills. I think any sort of like involvement like that can really go a long way with employers as well.

Sarah Keefe:

Yeah, absolutely, I totally agree. I tell students, like, there's always an opportunity to be involved in a way, because we also have a lot of good business organizations here at FSB So, and also just anything that's also volunteer that you can do, like, anything that kind of makes you stand out in those leadership roles. Like, absolutely, like, I really think that that's always helpful to have on there. Um, we also talk to students about when they're listing, like courses and projects and like those experiences too. Is that something that you guys look at at times kind of like the actual classwork and the experiences that they did during their academic careers?

Kelsey Hengerer:

Yeah, definitely, I think especially projects where, I know, there are some sort of classes where you might do, like external projects with like clients or something like that, or or any sort of projects where you're really, you know, working in a team where you might even be able to take a leadership position, like within a class and, you know, kind of head up this team, like any sort of examples like that, I think you know, employers will always look at as well. You know, when it comes to different coursework, I think coursework can really help guide your career narrative. So, you know, maybe you, you know, you weren't a business major, but you took business adjacent classes and you're like, you know what, I really do want a career in business, but, you know, I was a bio major or something like that, but with my minor, I took some, you know, business related coursework. I think highlighting that coursework on your resume can help show employers like, you know, even though I might not have had a traditional path like I do have some exposure to the business world or things like that, and you're able to craft your career narrative through adding those things to your resume. 

Sarah Keefe:

Yeah, yeah. Absolutely, absolutely. Thank you, Kelsey. That's like wonderful advice. And it's also like validating to hear, because these are things that I tell students too. So it's always wonderful when recruiters are just like, Yep, this is what you're supposed to be doing. So I'm glad I'm telling students correct information too. So some of the things you were talking about, like standing out on a resume, and kind of things that you look for that are really like, kind of like positive experiences. So the resume is like, of course, one component to the application process and to like applying and so like, some of the next steps would be, like interviews, where you're actually interviewing for the role itself. So what are some things candidates do in interviews that have really like impressed you?

Kelsey Hengerer:

Definitely. So I think some of the things that have really impressed me through my experience of being a recruiter are when candidates come prepared with really thoughtful questions, when they have a strong understanding of the company and the role that they're applying for and that they can really clearly articulate why they're excited to join. You know, I'm also really impressed when students can give specific examples that show their drive, that show humility and the ability to work well on a team. So I think really, just when students come super prepared, they can articulate their previous experiences as well as why they want to work at that specific company. I think that just coming prepared with that is huge and really makes a big impact.

Sarah Keefe:

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That's something that I talk to students a lot about, is the research that goes into interviews and that learning the company's mission statement, learning their values and making sure that those values align with you. Like, is this a company that you want to go and, like, spend your time at and work at? So that's something that I always like to talk about with students all the time, is, like, the actual research that goes into that process and how that goes a long way with employers. Like they see, like, oh, you actually do, care about our company like you researched our company, you learned about our values. So, yeah, that's wonderful. So more of the positive things you see in these interviews, so on the other end of that spectrum, so what are some of the biggest red flags that you'll see in student interviews? 

Kelsey Hengerer:

Yeah, I think on the flip side, that lack of preparation is a big red flag, you know, if somebody, somebody doesn't understand what the company actually does, or they can't explain why they're interested or or maybe how this opportunity ties in with the other roles that they're exploring, I think that's definitely a red flag. I think something else is, you know, when talking about how you approach a challenge, are you taking this challenge head on, or are you putting blame on external factors? It's really great to see when, you know, people have a sense of ownership of that growth mindset and have examples of, you know, instances where they've been able to take feedback really well. So I think, you know, that's something that we would, we would look for, rather than, you know, a sense of perfection or something like that. So I think, you know, being able to talk about overcoming obstacles in a positive way, rather than blaming external factors. I think that's definitely a red flag when it's always somebody else's fault, not taking accountability. So I think on the flip side, being able to take accountability and ownership over things, I think, is, is something we would look for. And if that's not happening, it would definitely be more of a red flag, yeah, yeah, absolutely that that's actually, like, Great that you brought that up. Because, like, one of the biggest questions that students ask me that kind of they get hung up on, and it's, it is typically a question that comes up in interviews is, what is your greatest weakness? So there's that question, yeah, what is your greatest strength? What is your greatest weakness? So for that question, like, if you all were to ask that question during an interview, you'd be looking for more of that. Like, this is some of my shortcomings, and this is how I grew and learned from them? Exactly, yeah, just any sort of, you know, obstacle that you've come across, like, how did you deal with it? And how did you grow from it? You know, especially at ALF sites, we have a very feedback-oriented culture. It's very transparent, and a lot of the role is about learning and growing and developing as an early career individual. So. We definitely want to see candidates who have that growth mindset, who want to make mistakes, who want to take feedback and learn and grow. So any, any kind of examples you can give of times where you have taken feedback in a positive way, where you have come across a challenge, or you have encountered a weakness of yours that you've been able to overcome. I think that's definitely what we're looking for, you know, in interviews, when there are those questions of, you know, what is a weakness, or what's, you know, something that's not your strongest suit. So I think that's definitely what we would look for. 

Sarah Keefe:

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Like, I completely agree. And like, something that I've always appreciated about you in AlphaSights is you guys are really great with questions. Like, we always tell students, like, please feel free to ask your employer questions. Like, they want you to be asking questions on the job they want they know that you're learning, especially if it's an internship like, or an entry level role that they're in. So I think it's really great that AlphaSights has cultivated that environment of like, growth and learning. And being able to ask questions is really wonderful. So we talked a little bit about, like resumes. We talked about like the interview process. So all of these are really crucial and essential for the application process when you've actually obtained an opportunity, like, to apply for a job and found the job. So some earlier components to actually like finding this job and also to like making connections and to networking. So how important is networking, or getting a referral versus simply applying online for positions?

Kelsey Hengerer:

Yeah, that's a really great question, and I think networking definitely does help a lot. It doesn't guarantee you a job, but it can give you really good insight into the company. It can help you prepare better for the interview process, and it also helps you to understand what the day to day really looks like for the role that you're interested in. So you know, would definitely recommend for any students to chat with someone who's in the role that you're applying for, that you're interested in, because it's going to give you so much insight into the company that you're not going to be able to find, like through the job description or online. Getting that human perspective is definitely, I think, super important. And even if you don't have a connection with anyone who works at that company, you definitely should still apply online, but don't be afraid to reach out to recruiters or alumni on LinkedIn. I think that is something that can be really, really crucial. Is, you know, using those connections, those kind of, maybe not immediate connections that you have, but connections that you have like through your alumni base, that I think is really awesome. I know that at AlphaSights, we have a super strong Miami University alumni network, and all of them are always more than happy to connect and share more about AlphaSights and their experiences. And I know that that's not something that's unique to AlphaSights, and that spreads across, you know, various industries and various, you know, companies is that strong Miami University alumni network. So I would definitely recommend doing some research on LinkedIn, finding are there Miami University alumni at this school that I or at this, you know, company that I'm interested in, and connecting with them and reaching out, and, you know, forming those connections and getting that information. And you know, that's definitely not going to guarantee you a job, but it can help you kind of get in that direction and maybe help move your application forward even.

Sarah Keefe:

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That's probably like, a great question that I get from students when I'm talking to them, and we'll talk about, like, other companies, like different companies they're interested in. They I ask them if they would like me to connect them to a recruiter, like directly. And they usually ask me that they're like, Well, do the students who are connected with recruiters, do they have a better chance of getting the position than the students who apply online? So that's always, like, a really good question that I come across. And like, you're kind of saying, like, it definitely helps with the interview process and kind of getting more of that research and insight knowledge?

Kelsey Hengerer:

Definitely, and it just helps, you know, as a student, figuring out, what do I actually want to do? Like you might see a job description that you know looks great, and you think, Oh, this is perfect for me. And then you can actually talk to someone in the role and learn more about it. And you know, maybe you'll realize, oh, you know, that isn't actually what I thought it would be, and that's not what I want to be doing. Or on the flip side, oh, this is actually exactly what I want to do. This is perfect. I'm super excited, and now I have a better understanding going into the interview process, and I'm more likely to succeed because I have this understanding.

Sarah Keefe:

Yeah, absolutely. And I always tell students to recruiters are really wonderful because they say you're like, telling them about, like, a job or a position, and they're like, Oh, that's not exactly what I thought it was. They have so much knowledge and insights about other jobs available at the company that they can talk about as well. So you guys can actually teach students, like, about other opportunities that maybe would be something that would resonate with them more than the original opportunity that they're like inquiring about.

Kelsey Hengerer:

Yeah, exactly, yeah. We're, I feel like, definitely reach out to recruiters. We really do want to. Help anyway that we can.

Sarah Keefe:

Yeah, recruiters are wonderful. Obviously, you're here and like, but we always like, tell students, like, there is so much value with recruiters and with connecting with them and learning from them. They're such a wonderful resource for students to utilize. So as we're going through networking resumes, this has all been really great Kelsey, like, really appreciate, like, all your insights with all of this. So some of the other things that we're kind of like curious about, especially with your company specifically, is skills that students have. So what kinds of skills or experiences does your company value most with new graduate students.

Kelsey Hengerer:

Yeah, so at AlphaSights, we definitely really value communication, adaptability, humility and a really strong work ethic. I'd say those are like the skills and characteristics that we're really looking for when it comes to prior experiences, any sort of experiences in sales, customer, service, consulting or another client facing role can translate really well, but we really care more about like potential, mindset and desire to be in this type of role we have at AlphaSights that's very client facing, very commercial, rather than like an exact background. So we're really looking for more of that, that potential and that growth mindset and that desire to be in this type of role, rather than you have to have X, Y and Z on your resume to be considered. It's a lot more subjective than that.

Sarah Keefe:

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So some of the things you're discussing are like soft skills, which are really wonderful to have. Are there any like hard skills that you guys look for too? 

Kelsey Hengerer:

Not necessarily any hard skills at AlphaSights, our client service team, and that position and internship is definitely more focused on kind of the people aspect of things. There's not going to be any number crunching or data analytics or Excel work or anything like that. So we definitely do emphasize more the soft side kind of skills, rather than like, qual, like those quantitative or analytical skills. 

Sarah Keefe:

Yeah, absolutely. That's wonderful to know. That's something students ask me sometimes with jobs, they're like, but are they more focused on the hard skills? And I'm like, it depends on the company. Like, it depends on the position in the company, for sure, I'd say, in general, though, is like an overarching theme that I see is soft skills are always valued like this is something that I tell students all the time, like leadership, communication, collaboration, like these are all valued skills. So I think that's wonderful, that those are all skills that your company really like, values and looks for within students. So something within especially so I just got back a couple weeks ago from the NCDA Conference, which is like a national, like Career Development Association Conference, and one of the main topics that they really discussed in there is upskilling and how that is becoming something that's becoming just really popular among employers is a lot of upskilling, so like online courses certifications. So are there any, maybe online courses, certifications or extracurriculars that you would recommend as a recruiter, that you believe would help a student stand out more for your company?

Kelsey Hengerer:

Yeah, I think in terms of, like, extracurriculars, any sort of, like involvement you can get, where you are developing those soft skills. So I know at Miami University you have Pi Sigma Epsilon, which is the sales and marketing business fraternity, where there's a lot of emphasis placed on that kind of, like professional selling and communication and those sort of skills. So any kind of opportunity to get involved on campus, where you'll be, you know, improving your communication skills, where you'll be interacting with other people, you know, potentially being in a client facing position, whether that's within a consulting group or something like that. You know, any sort of way to develop those, those soft skills, I think is something that's super helpful. There's no specific like online courses or certifications that I would recommend, but I think you know, if you there are definitely like ways you can, you know, potentially do, like an online sales course or something like that, any so really, at the end of the day, like anything where you can develop those communication skills, I think is something that will really help, help you to stand out.

Sarah Keefe:

Yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah. I completely agree. And like, getting as involved, like, I always tell students, like, during your academic career, it's like, such an exciting time in your life. And so, like, I know things get busy, especially when students work and they have classes, but it's always worthwhile to get involved with extracurriculars, like whether it's clubs, whether it's associations, whether it's like student groups, like it's it's something that I always encourage students, because it also enriches your academic career as well, and your time within college, aside from the bonus of it looking like great to employers and recruiters too. So I think that's a wonderful piece of advice. So we're kind of winding down to one of our last questions. So this is a question that we think is always just like kind of fun, but also great to ask recruiters. So if you were a student right now, what would you focus on to stand out?

Kelsey Hengerer:

Yeah, and I love this question, and I think it really ties into all the points that we've kind of previously covered. But what I would focus on is gaining experience, so even like small experiences and really just building relationships with your peers, with mentors, building a track record of successful accomplishments and practicing how to tell my story confidently. I'd also spend time reflecting on what I'm really looking for in a job, because knowing yourself and knowing what you want really helps you stand out more than anything else, and being able to articulate your career narrative and your goals and everything like that. I think it goes such a long way. So I'd say those would be like, my main focuses if I were currently a student. 

Sarah Keefe:

Yeah, absolutely. I couldn't agree more. I think that's completely true. We tell students, like, one of the main things, especially when they're talking about themselves in an interview, is that recruiters, like employers, want to know the story, like, what's your story? Like, how did having this experience have you add value to the project or add value to the company? So what you did actually added to it. So kind of getting that formula and that story across. So, yeah, I think that that's wonderful. And once again, Kelsey, we really appreciate you taking the time to speak with us and give us all these great insights, not just from a recruiter's perspective, but, of course, from your amazing company AlphaSights as well.

Kelsey Hengerer:

Thank you so much for having me, Sarah, this was really great, and hopefully this is helpful to students who have questions about, you know, career development and about kind of the recruitment process.

Sarah Keefe:

Hello everyone, and welcome to career Convos. I'm your host. Sarah Keefe, the Associate Director of Professional Development for the Farmer School of Business here at Miami University today, we have the pleasure of speaking with Bailey Hatch. Bailey graduated from the Farmer School of Business in 2017 with a degree in supply chain management. Bailey, could you tell us a little bit about your company that you work for and the role that you're in with your company?

Bailey Hatch:

Yep. Hi everyone. As she said, I'm Bailey Hatch. I work for Bath and Body Works currently, which has a home office based out of Columbus, Ohio. The brand is a specialty home and body care retailer. It has about 1800 stores in the United States and has an expanding international market as well. I've had several roles in my four years with the brand. However, I'm currently a senior merchandise planner, which leads a small but mighty team that generates financial plans and projections for some of the products that we sell in our stores and mainline. 

Sarah Keefe:

Wonderful. Thank you. Thank you. It sounds like a really exciting role that you have with a really like, great company that gets to work with a lot of our Miami students, which we're really grateful for. So some of the things, like, with your experience with Miami University, a lot of students are always wondering, like, what can they can get involved in during their academic careers, like their freshman year through their senior year, and kind of what they can do to kind of help make themselves a more appealing candidate for when they graduate and they're applying for jobs or when they're looking for internships. So I'd love to know what you were involved in during your time at Miami University, and maybe what you would recommend for students while they're going through their time at Miami.

Bailey Hatch:

Yeah, the business school, I think, did a really good job of encouraging students to be involved in things within and without. Of the business school. I know a lot of my peers were involved in business fraternities. However, I took the Greek life direction. I think both are great depending on where your interests lie. So I was part of a sorority while I was on campus. And I do encourage students to get involved in a leadership position. Whatever you decide to do is kind of like an extracurricular outside of the classroom. So I was on the Panhellenic Council my last two years at Miami, which really kind of broadened my leadership skills, my public speaking skills. So I definitely encourage students to get involved in something outside of their major. And then I was also involved in club soccer while I was there. So something just to get you with a different group of students, especially if you're, you know, business school and Greek life, it's very easy to kind of find a small niche on campus, but sports are great too. You can meet a lot of different people that way.

Sarah Keefe:

Yeah, yeah. That's awesome. I think that that's really great advice. I think a lot of our students, we have great business organizations at FSB, but sometimes we get so wrapped up in the bubble of like the business and the business world that it can be really helpful to seek out different student organizations that are outside of FSB as well. So yeah, that's great to hear, and it's really interesting. So I was talking to a recruiter the other day, we did a really good interview, and she talked about, you know, we talked about these leadership skills, these soft skills, and how to develop them. So would you say when you were like, in an interview for your internship or at the career fair, did you like, use these like organizations that you were part of, and these experiences as examples, when you were talking in these 

Bailey Hatch:

Exactly, yeah, It was a great way to say, kind of beyond just being a student and kind of getting the degree, they're very interested in what else you did with your time while you're there. And it was easy to draw on those experiences to say that I had practice working with different groups of people, dealing with conflict, presenting in front of large groups, dealing with faculty and staff within the university, and building those relationships. So to your point, like a lot of those soft skills, I developed it outside of the classroom, in some extracurriculars that I think just doing book work, yes, group projects, all those things work just as well, but gives you a broader base of experiences to draw from.

Sarah Keefe:

Yeah, absolutely, I completely agree that's like, it's so important to, like, just have this well rounded experience while you're going through college, which is really great. And Miami offers a lot of great things to join in, so that you can have a well rounded experience with this, which is awesome. So it kind of leads me to my other question, talking about involvement with Miami University. Did you have any internships while you were attending Miami? And if you did, what if. Advice do you have for students who are looking to obtain an internship?

Bailey Hatch:

I interned with L brands, which I did secure that insured internship while on campus at Miami. So I went the career fair route, which I highly recommend for any student who is curious or serious about getting an internship. And I would say a piece of advice, I was a little discouraged at the time that I didn't get to go somewhere cool across the country, like I ended up in my hometown. And I would just say, like, be open to anything that you find at that career fair doesn't have to be where you ultimately end up, but it's an incredible resource. I think Miami did a great job of bringing companies from all over the country on campus that were very interested and serious about obtaining Miami students for their internship programs. So I had a great experience and was able to kind of use Miami as a way to get my foot in the door.

Sarah Keefe:

That's really wonderful to hear. And I really like that you brought up the career fair. So something that we talk to students about, and we encourage greatly, is that the career fair is for freshmen. Like, it is for first years. Like, is that something that you can kind of, like, speak to? Like, yes. Like, it is something to go to completely.

Bailey Hatch:

And I would say to your point, start as a freshman, because it can be a great way to get some really, like, uncomfortable practice. I was very introverted and needed some help, kind of getting drawn out of my shell and needed the pressure, I think, of a career fair to make myself go out and network. So I went the first two years that I was there, and I would highly recommend going as a freshman, because the stakes are a little lower for first years, and it's a good way to get practice so that when you're in your second and your third year and you really need to kind of start getting some professional experience on your resume. It's not your first career fair at that point, you kind of know what you're doing. You know where you're going. You have your resume laid out. You've practiced kind of, you know everybody will tell you the elevator speech like, tell me about yourself. So highly recommend for first years to kind of get one in and get some practice early, so that later on down the line, you've kind of been through the run around and kind of know what to expect.

Sarah Keefe:

Yeah, I completely agree with you 100% and we always tell students too, like, you just never know. Like, it's like, we had an example of a student where she went and she spoke to like, one of the recruiters there, and they said, you know, we're not looking for any first years, but come back to our table next year. And she did, and they remembered her, and then she obtained an internship. They were like, yes, we remember you. You left a really great impression on us. Like, so it also, like, helps create those building blocks for future opportunities with these companies. And yeah, so that's, it's wonderful practice that can create future opportunities. But yeah, we always tell that to students, because so often they're told, Oh, don't worry about it. As a freshman, it's like, yes, definitely go like, it's a great opportunity.

Bailey Hatch:

Yeah, even if you just get a couple booths in. I remember I used to be like, Okay, I'm gonna do five boobs, and then if I am not having a great time with it, I can go after that sometimes, just making yourself go to a few. Yeah, can I get the jitters out of the way?

Sarah Keefe:

Yes, I completely agree with you. It's so true. It just really gives good practice for that, which is really great. So, yeah. So talking about like the resources that were utilized, like the career fair is something that's really great to utilize during your time at Miami. And so are there any other resources that you utilized at Miami that you would recommend students take advantage of during their academic careers?

Bailey Hatch:

One thing I was involved in that I forgot to mention at the kickoff was I was actually a business school writing tutor for a couple years. Awesome. And I would highly recommend either if you're interested in providing advice, or you like writing, whether it's creative or from a professional lens, to utilize the writing centers. Again, I looked at several resumes for other students while I was a tutor there, but also while I went to get practice and go into training to be a tutor, I got to practice those skills and get my resume reviewed. So I would say the writing centers are a great tool, especially if you're feeling stuck or overwhelmed by the resume process. I know that you've gotten a lot more creative now than when I was in school, too. So it can just be helpful to get a second pair of eyes and get some good advice on what you should have on your resume, and get some practice in that lens. And it can help you. Use them for other projects as well, not just resumes, but that's kind of the most professional application I can kind of think of.

Sarah Keefe:

Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I completely agree. And just for everybody listening like so it's the Howie Center for Writing Excellence. So it's the Howie Writing Center, and it's actually located in FSB, so this is also a writing center that a lot of students utilize as well. So you can find them at the King Library, Farmer School of Business and Peabody Hall. So I would highly recommend looking them up. The Howey Writing Center. Really, really good resource for our students to utilize, for sure. Yeah, that's really great to hear. There's so many good resources. And what I like to tell students about the most is like, you're paying good money to go to Miami. So these resources are here whether you use them or not. So I always recommend, like, use all the resources you can while you are at college. Like, that's what you're paying for, that's what you're here for, and it'll enrich your experience so much more. You'll get so much more out of your college experience if you utilize these resources offered by Miami. Yeah, absolutely. So kind of talking about resources and supporting students like along the way. How did Miami University support you in learning skills needed for your first job out of college, and what were these skills that you learned? A lot of that helped you with this.

Bailey Hatch:

Yeah, I think the program did a really good job of, like a progressive education. So your first kind of years were a lot of, like, learning how to learn, learning how to study. So those classes tended to be a lot more book work, small group projects, tests and things like that. But I think as I got later and later into my time at Miami, it was a lot more presenting and bigger group projects and thesis and things like that. So really leaning into practicing your presentation style and those soft skills we kind of mentioned at the kickoff is a big thing that I have noticed as I've gotten further along in my professional career, is there's kind of a gap in the workforce. There's, you know, the people who can do the work really well, is what we say at Bath and Body Works is just like the computer work. They can kind of work in Excel, they can work in SQL and all the programs quietly, by themselves, really well. But then there's a second group of people in the workforce that can not only do that, but also can present themselves well within a meeting space and with other executives in the brand, and kind of present their work. And I would really lean into those skills, kind of on the back half of your time at Miami, if you get the opportunity. And some of those, like project based classes that you get to towards the end, that pays off in a huge way. If you're able to kind of learn how to speak in front of people, how to present your ideas in, like, a clear and succinct way, you really help you stand out in the workforce.

Sarah Keefe:

Yeah, absolutely, I couldn't agree with you more. Like this is something I talk to students about often, because you will have to present at one point or another in your career. Like, I think some students want jobs or, oh, I'll just, I'll just work at a desk and not be in front of and I'm like, but it doesn't exist anymore. Like you, you will be presenting your ideas. And we always like, want to teach students, like training them to tell their story and to be able to articulate their experiences really well. That's something that I hear from recruiters is like, the biggest things that they say students need to work on is one, researching the company beforehand, before an interview, doing research of the company, learning their values, their mission statement. That's always, like, really great to know. And then also, like being able to really, like, plug in your stories to what they're looking for in the interview, and like, talk about, well, this was the experience I have, and it relates to this part of the job description that you're talking about. So like telling those stories and articulating them.

Bailey Hatch:

Well, it's funny, you bring up the value piece that you're hearing that from recruiters as well, because that has been in the past year, at least at our brand, we've done a revamp. The values have become super important, and they're trying to, like, weave them into everything that we do. So interesting to hear that. You're hearing that from recruiters as well as part of like the interview process is like to research that and kind of come well versed, because we do that as well. We weave our values into the interview questions.

Sarah Keefe:

Yes, absolutely. And that's just something, excuse me. Um, that's just something. Yeah. It's really good to hear that. That's actually really great. And we tell students like, you know, companies really take their time to cultivate these values and these mission statements. It's embedded in, like, their entire brand identity. And so it's not like companies are just like, putting them up on their website and then not doing anything with them. They really make sure it's woven into every level of the company. And so that's really great to hear, like, so yeah, recruiters are telling me this, so that's good to hear on the employer side that this is actually, like, really true, and this is happening as well. So yeah, it is. It's like, really great to know that. So yeah, like, we've gone over like, so many different things within our interview, and kind of like the skills that you've learned and the resources that you've utilized, and so I always like to finish on this question, just because I think it's so valuable coming from our Miami alumni. So what advice would you give yourself as a first year?

Bailey Hatch:

Yeah, so it was a good chance to reflect on that question. But if I would go back and kind of think of the frame of mind that I was in as a first year, is one a bit of encouragement really think of all the great things that I think Miami students bring to the table, and lean into those and not be afraid of being proud of those, and being proud of your background, and kind of all humble brag in a way of like, how far you've come. Like, Miami is a really great school. It's challenging to even get in and to be a student there, so really, just give yourself like a pat on the back and a little bit of confidence that you're even on campus there and even a student, especially in the Farmer School of Business, that school as well, is really competitive. And then the second bit of advice is just because you start somewhere. So that first internship or that first job may not be where you want to ultimately end up. Nothing is permanent, so just lean into the experiences that you're given and the path you find yourself on, but know that if it's ultimately probably not where you saw yourself going. One, it may work out for the better, but two, you don't have to stay there. I think I was kind of like crushed and a little upset to be back in my hometown and not going off to New York and LA and some of the big cities like some of my peers were. But you can move. You can relocate. There are different opportunities. New doors will open once you get through that kind of like first internship. So just lean into the opportunities that you find yourself in and know that you can kind of change your trajectory at any point if that's not what you want.

Sarah Keefe:

Yeah, I completely agree with you. That is wonderful advice to give students, and I always tell students, too, to kind of lean into that, that it's important for you to get your foot in the door. Like that. You need to get your foot in the door, and then you will work your way through, you'll learn all sorts of great, transferable skills that you can talk about so that you can move on to greater opportunities. But I think that's wonderful, like just taking advantage of the opportunities, and even if it's not exactly what you wanted, you can always build yourself up and like upskill and learn and get to the place that you want to be. So yeah, that's a wonderful piece of advice, Bailey. We really appreciate you being here. Thank you so much for joining us today. Bailey, we always love and appreciate all of our alumni, especially when they get to come back and tell their story and reflect and talk about their time at Miami. So I really appreciate you taking time to share your career journey with us today.

Bailey Hatch:

Of course, it's been super fun to get to chat with you and kind of get a little podcast experience. So great to kind of chat Miami with somebody.

Sarah Keefe:

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So thanks again. And until next time everyone, we're excited to continue having engaging career combos. Have a great day.