Speaker: The views and opinions expressed in this podcast by the hosts and guests may or may not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Miami University.

Speaker: Freshman year I came in undecided.

Speaker: I'm finance, entrepreneurship, anthropology.

Speaker: I'm a senior architecture student.

Speaker: I'm involved in the blockchain club here.

Speaker: I'm very passionate about studying abroad.

Speaker: Classes are going great.

Speaker: And then obviously very involved with my sorority.

Speaker: I'm thriving.

Meredith Aliff 

Hi, I'm Meredith Aliff. And this is major insight. This is the podcast where we talk college life with amazing students about how to find your place and purpose on campus.

Meredith Aliff 

College is a time of intellectual growth and personal discovery. And Liz Grossman has excelled at both by combining her many interests into a unique and dynamic experience that breaks the boundaries between everything from sports and video games, to art, history, fashion, culture, AI and more. As a sport Leadership and Management major with a combined Master's in eSports management. Liz is also the co-founder and general manager of the NBA 2k esports team, and a founding member of WISL, the women in sport Leadership Club on campus. We'll also talk about being financially responsible in college, some of the best kept secrets of time management, applying to grad school, and about how finding balance in life might be one of the most important things you'll ever learn how to do. And the first question that I have for you is who are you?

Liz Grossman 

My name is Liz Grossman. I am a senior and graduating this semester with a Bachelor of Science in Sport leadership and management and graduating in May with my masters of eSports Management.

Meredith Aliff 

So cool. So before we get into your college career, I want to go back to before college and talk about what was your college search like? What led you to Miami? And kind of did you have your path in mind when you got here? Did you figure it out once you were here?

Liz Grossman 

I always knew I wanted to major in sports management. I grew up in Pittsburgh, which is a sports town. I loved watching sports bring people together. So I knew I wanted to major in sports management. I knew I wanted to go to law school, but my path really did look different. I thought I was gonna minor in either history or fashion and then basically use that to go to law school and I wanted to get a JD MBA. And once I found out you had to take calculus to get a JD MBA, that was not happening anymore. I struggled so bad and stats 26I do not think I can do anything beyond Algebra Two. I'll be honest.

Meredith Aliff 

That's so fair.

Liz Grossman 

But my path really changed a lot when I got here. But I would say that the foundation has been there since I'd started high school.

Meredith Aliff 

What was the reasoning for either history or fashion as minors and then how has that kind of progressed as your college journey has progressed?

Liz Grossman 

So in high school, my high school was like a special kind of Liberal Arts High School. We just had a lot of great history courses. I took genocide studies, I took Middle Eastern Studies, AP art history. And with fashion, it's just something I'm really passionate about. I started doing resale flipping when I was like 15. I worked at Nordstrom, I worked at Hot Topic. As materialistic as it sounds, man, I love clothes and shoes and things. And I thought it was something I wanted to do you, but it just ... it ended up not working out.

Meredith Aliff 

Well, I have to say I love your fashion sense. As soon as you walked in, I noticed and I love the whole outfit. You look fantastic.

Liz Grossman 

Thank you.

Meredith Aliff 

Okay, so are there any teachers of specific classes that you want to give a shout out to today are anybody that's kind of helped mold your Miami experience while you've been here?

Liz Grossman 

There's definitely been a lot of really great professors that I've had. You know, when it comes to like Sports Leadership, specifically, you know, is Dr. Chase who ultimately called me and gave me the offer to Miami University. And she has been such an incredible advisor. When I did start whistle with a bunch of other girls who have since graduated, she was really behind us on that. I'd also definitely shout out my research advisor and teacher I'm TAing and for next semester, Dr. Phil Alexander. His class, which is rhetoric of games, which is one of the coolest classes I've ever taken at Miami. It really breaks down games and teaches them in both formal rhetoric, and then other forms of rhetoric. That was where my research started. Also, both classes I've taken with Dr. Sam Morris, who teaches sport ethics, and then the capstone for students who also have jobs. I love his classes because they're so focused on like, more philosophy and like critical thinking. And I really liked the kind of abstract big picture.

Meredith Aliff 

One thing that caught my attention, as you were saying them, though, was things that I haven't heard that are maybe organizations outside of class, like you said, WISL. Do you want to kind of talk about some of the things that you do outside of just your curriculum?

Liz Grossman 

So the main two things I do, I'm the vice president of Pi Sigma Begta. It is a chapter which is an honors fraternity. We have three main pillars we focus on social. So that's, you know, all the really fun stuff, game nights, formals, anything like that. service. So we worked for, you know, Oxford thread up this week, we volunteered at animal shelters, as well as scholarship. So we do study tables, resume reviews, presentation nights. So it's a really fun organization. And I think that really fosters what I think Miami is all about, to an extent, college in general is not only doing well in school, but finding a group of people and getting really great social experiences. I also work for the esports team. So I'm the sponsorship coordinator, but I am transitioning out, but I'll still be working for them next semester. And then before I was truly transitioning to being a grad student, I was a founding member of women in sport leadership, which is a fairly new club at Miami. It was actually founded during the pandemic in spring of 2021. And it was really focused on getting all the women in sports management, even kinesiology majors, minors, people who may be communications majors, but want to work in sport, anything like that, together, and bringing them speakers, resume workshops, you know, everybody looked at each other's resume before the big sport career fair. So just really creating a sense of community of women who want to work in the sporting world or studying the sporting world, and just, you know, helping each other out.

Meredith Aliff 

That's so cool, and to be a founding member. And then even though you're not a part of it still, but kind of get to see it continue to grow, that has to be a really rewarding experience. That's so cool. We were talking a little bit earlier before this. And you said something about finishing up your research. Do you want to talk a little bit about kind of how that started and how it's going?

Liz Grossman 

My research is actually in art history, and then games and culture. So my research title is officially la grande odalisque Mortal Kombat Malina in modern culture, I think it's gone through about 600 different title changes. So this kind of started in a class where I was writing a paper about Mortal Kombat where I referred to in ... this was an IMS 384 with Dr. Phil Alexander -- I refer to Malina as kind of a la grande odalisque of gaming, because she's a character that's kind of hyper-sexualized that people kind of think goes either one way or the other, which is how people perceive the very famous painting la grande odalisque by Jean-Auguste-Dominique Ingres. And I really wanted to draw connections where I don't I'm not really of the perception where I think that creators are making these games because they're sexist or racist, but like there's a tradition of drawing women in certain ways in art. So my thesis is essentially proving that traditions in the neoclassical period in art started. And then that made its way all the way through modern American video games through the lens of Malina in Mortal Kombat. So had to do a lot of gameplay, a lot of reading, Meta lot of art history research, I actually got to use the money that I got from the USS grant, to go to New York and go to the MET and actually see the painting this summer. And that was actually when I worked on the bulk of it. So now I just really have to update it for the new Mortal Kombat game and add a couple more sections. It's just taking the time to do that.

Meredith Aliff 

Absolutely. That's amazing. I feel like you said that so nonchalantly up there, that's like a huge deal. And to kind of make that connection and run with it. Like, that is amazing. Where are you planning on going next? What's your plan, post grad?

Liz Grossman 

I applied to law school. And so far, I've been accepted to two.

Meredith Aliff 

Congratulations.

Liz Grossman 

Thank you. I am planning on committing to a school but I'm waiting to compare financial offers. And then I want to specifically do intellectual property for AI software licensing, really just protection of creative properties and AI engines that, you know, that's a really new area that people don't know what to do with. And there's only like one court case about it. So definitely something in that realm and just learning all that. And I'm both excited and slightly scared, because I've heard really bad things about the first year of law school, but I think it'll be worth it. In the end.

Meredith Aliff 

I did want to ask, so as a senior myself and kind of looking at ... I'm taking a year to take some additional classes before I apply to graduate school. So I haven't started that process yet. But there's so many of our peers that are kind of doing that same thing right now. One thing that has at least intimidated me when observing these others, like my friends doing graduate applications is balancing that and your schoolwork here at Miami. Do you want to talk a little bit about kind of what that applying to law school while also being a student is like? because it seems overwhelming, but obviously it's possible.

Liz Grossman 

I prepped all my applications ahead of time or the best I could. I would recommend and I say this to anyone when was applying to college. The prompts are going to change slightly but if you have like a set essay that you're only going to have to tweak, write it in the summer, and I only had one application hanging over my head by September 5 2023, because they just had such a different prompt that, honestly, I kind of wanted to cry when I looked at it the first month, but then my amazing law advisor at Miami really, really helped me hone it in. But I think that's the biggest thing you can do is just do everything you can before you have to be back at school. So even if like, not everything is done, if it's 90% of the way done, and you see that application, it feels a lot more real and a lot more, like, I have to do it. The other thing is like don't let other people's, like, success or like making it look easy stress you out. Like there's a lot of forums about law school, especially people like Harvard, NYU, and it's like, "I don't want to go to one of those schools," really, you can't let that type of thing stress you out. It's like you know what you want to do more than anybody else does. So just like having that goal in mind, preparing the materials the best you can in advance. And then working with the resources you have on campus, it just feels like that takes so much stress away. And also like putting time for it in your Google calendar. That was also really good.

Meredith Aliff 

The Google Calendar saves lives, I'm telling you.

Liz Grossman 

Especially if you have to take a test. Like, when I was studying for the LSAT, every Monday was my big day, I devoted three hours to it. But then I took a really nice break and hung out with my friends. And then I took like ... I had set days for practice test, I think anything like that, where you're just setting up a schedule, and not just letting it become you know, December 1, like, "Oh, I missed early priority deadline." Just letting that sort of stuff.

Meredith Aliff 

Yeah, that's amazing. And one thing that I'm getting kind of a theme of, as you were explaining that, is also just having confidence within yourself, like not comparing yourself to everybody else, or saying, "oh, I need to be the best. And I need to get into the best." but knowing your path and being confident in the path that you've chosen, and going for it. So I love that. I think that's really great. And congratulations on your acceptances so far. So obviously, college does not come without its challenges. And I love looking at the people that I interview as kind of having this hero's journey of coming in, there's these challenges, but now I'm talking to you when you've tackled them, you're on top. So what are some of these bigger challenges that you've had to overcome while being a college student?

Liz Grossman 

I think the two biggest ones aren't as academic as much as they are in life. But I think a constantly kind of shifting social circle, when you live so close is harder to accept. But I think at some point, you're just like, it's not like it didn't happen in high school, or middle school or camp or this or that. That is definitely a bit of a challenge. Because you're like, you know, in your head, you're like, Oh, my God, I have no friends. And like, realistically, it's like one person left a friend group. And I think sometimes that social challenge feels hard. And then the other one is kind of like financially being responsible to an extent, like I like to think I am but then I remember that, like my hours got cut last semester, and then adjusting to that has been so hard. Like that is probably the hardest thing I've ever had do in college. But it's also it's like reminding myself, okay, you're not broke. You just can't like do this. And there's nothing wrong with that. I mean, when I took consumer culture, they call it like a quote unquote, social penalty, but sometimes just accepting that like, Hey, I can't go out because that's like the better thing to do. And that's okay. I think just accepting that has been really hard. And then I think sometimes when that type of stress gets combined with like, oh, I have this really big paper, it can get really hard. But you know, the best thing I would say to do, you know, I think Student Health Services has great resources. Also, just like making sure like, I go to the gym, and I have a set plan. Like sometimes if I'm stressed and I make a schedule, and I realized, okay, it's really not that much. It just seemed like a lot in my brain. Like, I really like to write things out and see them. I think that also has helped with just a lot of things.

Meredith Aliff 

totally

Liz Grossman 

and just not, you know, doing your best to not let it get to you. Or if I catch myself overthinking, like, doing something else or doing something I enjoy. but college is definitely not without its hard moments. You know, I think if you're a prospective student, there's going to be a paper that's gonna make you really upset or there's gonna be a professor you don't like or, you know, maybe a bad roommate or something. But it'll all work out in the end.

Meredith Aliff 

Yeah, absolutely. And I love the just kind of writing everything down because there will be times that even as a senior, I'll wake up in the morning, and immediately my mind is just flooded with all these things that I have to do. And I get all my notes, right there in bed as soon as I wake up, and I just type it out. And I'm like, that's like six things for the whole day. I can get that done. Like, I can do that. And if I can't do that, then I'll push off what I can push off until tomorrow, you know. but yeah, I love that kind of having a routine. It sounds like making sure that taking care of yourself is still a priority. You know, going to the gym, doing what you love to do, spending time with people you care about. But yeah, I think the financial responsibility one is kind of a new answer, as a challenge, because I think it's hard to talk about. But for most people college is our first experience with like, budgeting and like you have a set amount, and it's up to you what you want to spend that on. But then that's it. So kind of having to make those tough decisions sometimes can be a challenge, but I can't say I've mastered it as a senior, but we're still working, still working, but we're doing the best we can. Okay, if you had to look back over the past four years, what is the single best decision that you have made in college?

Liz Grossman 

So my coworker and I, who founded the NBA 2k team got invited to go have a whole day with the Cleveland Cavaliers and it was on a Tuesday. and it was the day I registered too. this was fall of last year. So there was a lot of like, Oh, God, can I say yes, like, can I miss all the school? like we had to get a hotel last minute, like, whole thing. But I just said yes. And it was really the first moment where I ever felt like being there. Like, we were four rows back from the court. And Kevin Love is my favorite NBA player. He was still on the Cavs at the time. And we were sitting with all these executives, and like this is the moment that I'd "made" it. like the Cavaliers took us to a steak house. Like it was the coolest thing ever.

Meredith Aliff 

That's amazing.

Liz Grossman 

It was just for the first time in my life, where I was like, Okay, I made it, I actually did something that like these really cool people care about. And they, like, they gave us all this for free. Like it felt so surreal to be sitting there after a whole day in their offices learning about, you know, we learned about how they use data and analytics, their DEI initiatives, their esports team, and like now at least the people who are on 2k I have a very good relationship with them. It's just one of those moments that just felt so surreal. it was the first time, like, I ever did feel like I was actually important, not because of like someone I knew. We're just a few college kids and some grad students. So just that whole experience was just so incredible. And I still look back on it. And I just think like, it was so much fun.

Liz Grossman 

Yeah, absolutely. And I feel like moments like that usually tend to happen when you're having a little bit of an impostor syndrome moment, where you're like, What am I actually doing here right now? Like, is this? Is there any future in this for me? And then it's something like fate, I don't know. But all out of the blue, you just get an experience like that. And it solidifies it and kind of allows you to be able to drive home your... what you're trying to do here a school. That's so cool. What an amazing experience. Okay, I have one more question for you. Before we finish up. If you could give any more advice to either yourself back before you started college, or anybody in that position, senior in high school, or just beginning freshman year of college? What advice would you give them?

Liz Grossman 

Just manage your time well. I think there's a balance. like no school assignment is worth missing out on your late teens and early 20s. But also, like, no drink at a bar is worth failing a class. I think finding that balance between the two is the best thing you can do. And I think I work at like a ridiculously rapid rate. So for everybody that's going to look different. But college is not so much about learning your degree, because so many people go to grad school, but it's about learning how to be a person.

Meredith Aliff 

Yeah. Oh, that's great advice.

Liz Grossman 

I think about that a lot. Sometimes, don't forget to value kind of what you learn in interpersonal relationships. You know, I think some people before college have lived with somebody else. other people haven't, or some people for very short periods of time, you know, learning how to live with a roommate, it's, you know, it's an important thing to learn. Just learning how to manage relationships and know what you want and don't want. But also on top of that learning, like, how do I study for this kind of test I've never had before? taking the time to do that it's really important. At some point, at least, once you get to like three or four, probably 400 level classes, you can't write a paper at night unless you are truly, truly skilled. Like, learning to take that time and just finding all those things. You're not only going to learn to be a good student, but you also, you know, learn how to be a person in the world.

Meredith Aliff 

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think that that is fantastic advice. And like you said, it's more than just getting A's in all your classes or finishing with the GPA that you want. But you do so much personal growth in these four years. And it's really important, I feel like to go in knowing that. You know, I've had a kind of epiphany moment a couple of weeks ago where I had, it's so random, but a memory on my Snapchat came up from freshman year, and I literally was like, Who is that little girl? I barely recognize her, like, it's ... you do so much growth and you don't even realize it half the time. But it's such an important part. It's not just about the academics or what you can put on your resume, but like what kind of person you turn into, which is super cool. Well, it has been an absolute pleasure and I wish you the best of luck.

Liz Grossman 

Thank you so much for having me.

Meredith Aliff 

Liz Grossman is a sport Leadership and Management major at Miami University. After completing her Master's in esports Management, she plans to focus on intellectual property and AI in law school next fall.