James Loy 

The views and opinions expressed in this podcast by the host and guests may or may not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Miami University.

Student 

I'm a senior. I'm about to graduate, and I've done a lot of cool things in college.

Student 

I never thought that I was going to be an intramural curler. I never thought that I was going to be the student body president.

Student 

These four years have been the biggest amount of growth I've seen in my entire life.

Student 

It's not just about the academics, but like, what kind of person you turn into, which is super cool.

Michaela 

*Sigh* I can't believe we're here, Katie.

Michaela 

This is genuinely so dreadful.

Katie 

I have to laugh or I'll cry.

Michaela 

I know! And like it's so hard to talk about, because then it feels real, and like I can't....I've been putting off feeling these emotions for quite some time, like, I ... even when we're taking grad pictures, I'm like, "la la la, I'm just in a white dress with my friends, I don't care, I don't know what's going on," and like, our mom's weekend, our moms came, and they're like, "we'll see you soon," I'm like, "no, you won't, I don't know what you're talking about!" I'm not gonna see you in two weeks,

Katie 

I'm not gonna see you.

Michaela 

So yeah, it's just like, I don't know, how are you feeling?

Katie 

I'm, I'm honestly okay. Like, I've felt the past couple months that I've just, like, kind of outgrown the space that I'm in. Like, as weird as it sounds, like I go around campus and I'm like, I'm too old to be here. Like, I just feel like I'm at that point. So, like, I'm okay with it, but I'm the same way, of like, I don't think I've processed that it's real. I really only processed it when I had my last dance show last week. We did our bows and everything. I walked off stage, just started bawling my eyes out, like it really hit me. But I know I need to go, like, I don't feel like I need to stay any longer.

Michaela 

Yeah, I think... I'm glad that me and you are talking then, because I think ... No, but I'm glad, because I think half the population does feel how you do, and half probably feels how I do, and it's probably good we're exploring both sides of that, because there...  My mom keeps saying there's gonna be claw marks on I-65, that's like her huge joke, like our highway, we take home, because she's like, you will never leave here unless you get dragged out, truly. So, I don't know. I just think it'll be good to hear kind of what you have to say about ... because I do feel that, like, growing out of college a little bit, but I'm more so just I think sad to leave the people, and I'm sure you agree.

Katie 

Yeah

Michaela 

But it's just so many bittersweet feelings, and just a lot of emotions in general. So, yeah, today we are talking all things graduation, which is so sad, I cannot believe we're here, but also it's been such an honor being at Miami for all four years, and I'm sure Katie can say the same. Yeah, so this is major insight. And who am I here with today?

Katie 

It's Katie, once again.

Michaela 

Once again.

Katie 

We're back.

Michaela 

A familiar voice, I think, kind of what's so crazy about this is looking back on just kind of how far we've come and like everything. Who we have become now as a senior and looking back on everything as a freshman, I'm like those two people are so different and so unrecognizable. So I guess like take me back to your first day of college, your first year, your first everything. How did you feel as a freshman, and kind of, how do you feel like you have advanced through these four years?

Katie 

Yeah, I was the person that came in and was like, I am never changing my major, I know exactly what I'm doing for the rest of my life, and I always heard people say, like, oh no, you won't, and I was the one that was like, no, this is what I'm doing for the rest of my life, I'm gonna go into film, and like, I want to work in media, and this is going to be my life. And I came in so dead set on that, that the moment I started having feelings that maybe that wasn't right, it was like I lost a huge part of myself, of like I had no idea what to do anymore, because I placed so much of my identity in that, that I kind of had to figure out who I was through that, as cliche as it sounds like I wanted this big film career, and I wanted to move out to LA, and I was so dead set on doing it that I was like, nothing's getting in my way of that, and it was honestly when I chose Miami, I had no clear reason of choosing it, like I kind of just came here, and as we were driving home, I was like, yeah, we can cancel every other tour I had, that's where I'm going.

Michaela 

We're the same, we are the same.

Katie 

My mom's like, are you sure? Because, like, there were places that had these huge film schools. I was in talks with advisors and people who were like, we would love to have you, like, we're so excited for you to apply, whatever. And I like ghosted all of them and came here, and I feel like that was my first moment of like letting myself kind of have something outside of that, and like, outside of this strict plan that I had set for myself, so I came here, and I did all of the film things I thought I wanted, and it just didn't feel fulfilling, really, like I just didn't feel that way, and I think it kind of woke me up to, like, okay, maybe you should think of other things outside of this, like, as much as you don't want to, so I went through, and I just continued in my major, and I continued with the student organizations that I joined. I finally joined a sorority, which I was so bound and determined not to do, and I've gotten to the point where it's just ... all of the good parts of it for me have come from the things that I wanted to dislike so much, like all of the friends I've made through my chapter that I was so bound to determine I did not want to join one. Those are my favorite people, the ones in my chapter, and just other people I've met in the community, because I've been able to do leadership there. And same with dance, I was so certain I was never going to dance again, and I caved, and I went back, and I did three more years. So long-winded way of saying I came in so certain and so dead set on this is going to be my thing and I'm not going to let outside things like tell me that I have to do something else and it still didn't feel right, and it's gotten me to the point where I'm at now, which is taking me likely into a completely different field that I didn't even know existed, and so just those changes and just like seeing where I am now, compared to like that first day I came in, I was like, no one's gonna stop me, I am gonna go do this thing that I've planned on doing my whole life.

Michaela 

Yeah, your toolkit for college needs to be an open mind. Something you 100% need is no preconceived notions, and try to hold no ideas of what you think your experience is going to be, because no matter what, even if you do everything to a tee to your plan, it will not end up as you think it will, like there's always going to be some sort of change, whether it's in your control or not, whether the detour was made by you, you will realize that, like, there are going to be some obstacles that maybe will prevent you from some of the opportunities you thought, but it will just reroute you into something better, truly, and I think that is something to realize. My freshman year, I don't even know... Very similar to that, Katie, I was... I had this dream of going to law school. I, it was an easy cop-out, because people would ask me, what am I doing with political science, and you could say big shot attorney, and no one's gonna say anything about it. I thought that was my plan. I was like, this is what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna go straight into law school, I'm gonna join all these clubs, and it's like, now I couldn't even imagine going to law school. Like, I mean, again, like, never say never, but I think it is so crazy looking back and just seeing even how like your passions in life change and like now I have such a different perspective on the world after I've gone abroad. I have such a different perspective on like human beings, like, the amount of different people I've had the pleasure of being around, like personality types and walks of life, has been so rewarding and I think has shaped just like my perspective on life so much as we've gone through these four years. And so I said to James, I said, like, that I feel like I'm less certain about my path as a senior than I was as a freshman, and that couldn't be more true. I accepted a job, and I think a lot of seniors can relate to this. You kind of just accept what comes your way,

Katie 

Yeah.

Michaela 

And for those who accept a job that they really truly want, I'm genuinely so happy for you, because it is not impossible to like your first job out of college. And I'm sure Katie will talk about what she's doing, similarly, but like I am a little bit nervous to do my job, because I'm not the most excited and passionate about it. And so I think that's another thing, too, like, you really, you really don't know where this kind of journey is going to take you, and so I thought that I would be like going to law school right now, and I'm not, and like, now I'm even less certain about what I want to do, and if I'm going to stay at my job for longer than six months. Or maybe I'm really going to love it, or maybe I'll find a different kind of niche, but I think it's just very interesting that I thought I was going to be something, somewhere completely different than I am right now. But honestly, like, I'm most happy looking back on like what I've accomplished in college than I am looking forward to the future, if that makes sense. Like, right now I think graduation should be a time of like reminiscing and being reflective and being proud, because think everything gets caught up in the sadness and the grief of like losing this time and you know this close vicinity with your friends, but it's like you should be really proud that you are walking across that stage and you've been through four years of pretty rigorous academics and like you've made it, and I think that's something that gets lost a lot in the graduation talk, is like you should be so happy. Like, that is something that is so cool, but obviously, as we know, there's a lot of emotions, but I just don't think that should go unnoticed. So I'm very proud of you, Katie. I think you're awesome.

Michaela 

I guess, like, what are you most proud of of your time here? Like, looking back, are you... is there one thing that you could kind of pinpoint? Like, I can't believe I did that. Like, damn, that was really cool?

Katie 

Yeah, it's gonna sound really cliche, but I, a couple days ago, got an award from our Greek Life Office.

Michaela 

I saw that! Congrtultions!

Katie 

Thank you. I got Greek Person of the Year, which didn't feel that big of a deal to me until I like went home and like sat there and looked at it, and was like I was the person who was so dead set on not joining a sorority because I knew all of the preconceived ideas about it, and I let myself try and I remember telling myself when I went into it, like, "I can always drop out, and no one's gonna judge me for that." Which is true, but I took it and ran with it, and when I realized the leadership opportunity there was, I just continued to run with it, even as somebody who had absolutely no idea what they were doing, but there's so many situations where I should not have felt qualified to go into leading on an executive board for an entire Panhellenic Council. I should not have felt confident enough to like go on and now basically like be a student assistant to the office, and I just did it anyway. Because I just hoped and prayed that somebody thought I was qualified enough, and that somebody would take a chance on me, and they did, to the point where now I'm like... I just got Greek person of the year, which was so cool, and that's something that I really would have struggled with just a couple years ago. I would have never done that, and I would have never gone for those kinds of things, but it challenged me enough to the point where I am now, of like, I have younger girls like coming up to me, like, I know there's girls I dance with and girls that I kind of help with in Greek life who are like, "you were just like the most inspiring person, and like I'm just so proud to know you," and like throwing up crying on the floor.

Michaela 

Yep

Katie 

Like, I would have never thought anyone would ever think that of me, especially like younger girls, like, makes me want to actually start sobbing, but I'm just really proud of the fact that I pushed myself and I actually like went for it and wasn't too scared to do it.

Michaela 

Yeah, there's so much right there, and like, it just encompasses all about the college experience, truly, and like imposter syndrome, and not feeling good enough, and asking yourself why not? Like, that is such a huge lesson of college. And this is so random, just so random, but we... I was just having a conversation with one of my roommates, and she, she was like, "why?" like something, and I was like, "why not?" Because there's like this line from We Bought a Zoo. Have you seen that movie?

Katie 

Mmm-hmm

Michaela 

And I remember it so vividly, so every time someone says "why," I say "why not?" But it's like such a good lesson for life. It's like, why wouldn't you go for that? What is the worst that can happen? Like, every time I've gone for something, there has not been a negative outcome, because, like, okay, you get it, and it's the best experience, or you don't get it, and you learn what you can do better next time, or maybe that wasn't the right path for you, and it kind of just redirected you, like, there is always something good to come out of going for an opportunity, whatever the outcome is.

Katie 

Yeah

Michaela 

And so I just think that's so inspiring, and, like, truly one of the best things I can say, as, like, a leader on campus is people feeling inspired by you, like that is by far the most rewarding, the coolest.

Katie 

Mmm-hmm. That is really cool.

Michaela 

Like, even... I would say, like, my favorite part about like being president of my sorority, is girls looking up to you so much. That means the world, and I think everyone can say that: that that makes what you're doing worthwhile. And even this podcast, like, so many people are like, "oh my god, I saw your poster, like, I listened to your episode, that was so cool, like, I love what you said about this, or I loved when you had so and so on, that conversation was awesome," and it's like, that's kind of what keeps you going, and that is what's like just made my experience so wonderful, because I feel like when you are in these positions, you can reach so many people on campus, and that's kind of the one thing I would say, looking back, too, is like try to put yourself in positions to know the most people, and like, you know what I mean? Be able to run into more people than you would in your normal social circle, and ...

Katie 

Yeah.

Michaela 

just have conversations with people and connect with people, because like, another thing that your position does, and my position has done, and being on this podcast does, is like allowing you to meet so many people that you wouldn't meet otherwise, and like, yeah, it's just so interesting. Like, I... I just can't believe it. I can't. And I'm sick, and like, I can't think... I can't think about this being over. Like, do you have, like, a hard time, like, thinking about not coming back? Like, I think my brain is tricking me.

Katie 

Yeah. It's hard because I think I am kind of like tricking myself into this idea that I will be back all the time, and that it's going to be so fine, because I do that with my hometown right now, like, because of how often I go home. Now that I kind of know what's happening, at least in the next year. Like, I'm likely moving to Charlotte, it's a six and a half hour ... or, eight hour drive here, so I just think I'm in this weird spot of like I think I'm trying to convince myself I'm gonna be back just to like soften the blow a little bit, but it is really hard to process that like I might not be back here for a really long time.

Michaela 

Yeah, and the prolonging of the emotions that I feel like I'm feeling is because I'm around all people who also don't want to graduate, and we literally have gotten to the point where, like, "don't say the G word," like it's a bad word, we say "don't say the G word, don't bring up the G word. Why are you talking about that? Why you talking about ... " We've got back our grad photos today, and we were like, "everyone look at them alone in your room, don't talk about it, don't speak of it." We had like an entire period where we were like, you can't say the words, "you're leaving." Like, it was so bad, and I think, obviously, like... that's not a healthy coping mechanism. People, I'm not encouraging that behavior. I do think you should process it before it happens, but I just find it so funny that, like, we are all hanging on for dear life for this era to not end, even though the future is so very bright, and everyone is going to go on and do amazing. Amazing things, I think it's just a testament to how just incredible college has been to all of us. And I also would like to note, I think wherever you go to school is what you make of it, and I think that's a really good line of advice, just generally, because it's all about your mindset. It's about what you do with your opportunities, and like, it's about the community that you build, and you are capable of doing that wherever you end up, whether it's a community college, whether it is a Big 10 school, like, you ... As long as you are putting your best foot forward, like, you are going to find all these things that we're thinking of and speaking of. You can be ... have a leadership position, you can be on a podcast, like, anything is possible, and I mean that, like, college gives you so many amazing resources to, like, make your dreams come ... dreams happen. Even if that's in, like, a small capacity. Like, I always said I wanted a podcast, and, like, to be able to say I'm a host of a podcast is so cool, and, like, I think if you are able to... Obviously, this is a general statement, and like things happen, so life happens. Don't take this like so literally, but like if you like try your best to have a great experience, I do think it's possible wherever you are. So, just throwing that out there.

Katie 

Yeah, and what do you think you miss the most, like when you think about graduating, when we think about like actually moving and like friend groups splitting up and not physically being here anymore. Like, do you think it's like the friendship aspect, or is it just the fact that like we're not gonna be in this place together anymore? Or like just kind of ... ?

Michaela 

Not to get like weird and philosophical. I think it's the time passing that like is so gut-wrenching to me, and that sounds like so dramatic, but it's like being old enough to say that I'm a college graduate makes me literally sick to my stomach.

Katie 

Yeah.

Michaela 

But this is how I felt my entire life. When I graduated high school, I couldn't believe it. When I finished freshman year of college, I couldn't believe it. I can never believe how old I am, and so I just have to accept that about myself. But I truly do think like what is so hard to grasp is how fast it went by, and how I don't feel like I'm old enough to have a big girl job. I don't feel old enough to conquer the world on my own yet. I want to stay in this bubble forever. I want to just have like my own little responsibilities. I don't want to go on and like pay my phone bill and stuff. I think it's just not... I don't feel qualified to be an adult yet.

Katie 

Yeah.

Michaela 

I don't, and I think that's relatable for a lot of people, because I just still feel like... I feel 17, like I feel forever 17, no matter... I don't know what it is, like I can't believe that like I'm going to be trusted with, like, a real full-time salary. Like what?! I don't even... it's just crazy. So I think that. And I also do think it's being in such a close vicinity with the people that you love so much.

Katie 

Yeah.

Michaela 

I've met sisters here, truly, and I know you feel the same.

Katie 

Mmm-hmm

Michaela 

That ... like, we spend every waking moment together, from the moment I open my eyes till the time I go to bed, we are together all day. And so it's just knowing that, like, we're not gonna have ... even though, like, honestly, most of us are moving to Chicago, but, like, it's not going to be the same vibe. It's ...you're not going to be able to just, like, walk into someone's room ever again. You're never going to be living in a house with 13 girls ever again, that's just not what's ... So, I think it's just like all of these things, I just feel like they're like whizzing in front of my face, like, and I can't keep up, like I just want time to stop. How do you feel?

Katie 

It's.. I think for me it's almost.. and granted, I have the best friends ever, and I'm not saying that I don't, but for me it's more of like the fact that this place continues to move and continues to change without me, like the office that I work at, we're talking about all the things for the fall, and I'm like, "Oh, when you get to this in the fall without me, like here's what you do," and like trying to hand things off, knowing that the world's gonna keep spinning in Oxford, and the way that, like, I'm not here. And granted, it's been 200 something years that it went without me, but like, now I'm like, "are they gonna be okay?" Like, my heart is like, "is everything gonna be okay when I leave, and like, is it still gonna be a place that I love?" And I think it's just like the idea that it's gonna keep going, and that things keep going without me is really hard. I hope that the lessons that I learned that I've passed on to people stick, and that like they continue to have that, but like you don't know.

Michaela 

Yeah.

Katie 

And you pray that all of them keep in touch with you, and that you continue to hear all about it next year, and in the coming years. But like in the next four years, I'm not going to know anybody that goes here, likely, like there's very small chance I'm going to still know people who go here, and, like, experienced it the way I experienced it. And that's the worst to me, of like that idea that like I'm not gonna know anybody here anymore, and especially like the staff and the faculty that I've gotten to be around, like I don't want to leave them, like, that's really hard for me too.

Michaela 

I promise you've made an impact. Don't forget that. Don't think that you...

Katie 

I know that I have.

Michaela 

Don't think that it will go away.

Katie 

Yeah. it's just hard.

Michaela 

It won't. Absolutely, it's hard. I completely agree, for two reasons. One, because my professors keep talking about next year and how we're moving to Bachelor, and I'm like, "I won't be there. Why are you moving? Why do you guys get a new building? I'm not gonna be here. Hello, me, Michaela Buck, right here. Hey!"

Katie 

Yeah.

Michaela 

So I completely relate to that, and on that same note, I remember the seniors when I was a freshman so vividly, and that's freaking me out too. Like, I just feel like... but then in the same vein, it's like that feels like 10 years ago, so I don't know, like time is so weird, and it's ...

Katie 

Time is not real.

Michaela 

It's hard to grapple with. But okay, I guess, like, we're onto the future. That word makes me shiver too! All right, it's gonna be awesome.

Katie 

Scary.

Michaela 

What do you think is your biggest thing you've learned about yourself? And a more like future forward question: What do you think, like, you've learned? What are you gonna miss? And kind of, what are you doing after this? If you want to explain to peeps what your job is?

Katie 

Yeah, the biggest thing that I learned about myself, I think, was just to not be so afraid of things. But I came into college with so much anxiety and so much fear of like doing anything that I knew might challenge me, or like I might fail at doing, or like something's gonna go wrong. Like, that scared the crap out of me as a freshman. And when I came in, I was like ...that's why I wanted to be on that path so bad, was because I'm like, I know I can do this, I know I can do good at this. And if I do anything else, I'm not gonna know, and that's gonna scare me. And I am just proud that I've like let myself try, and I've let myself do other things, and I've let myself just like learn from failure, because I definitely have had plenty now, and I was so scared for it to happen that I just finally was like, "okay, well, nothing I do is gonna kill me, nothing I do is gonna make everyone hate me," like, just that anxiety that everybody has, I think, going into freshman year, of like, "you're never gonna make friends, you're never gonna find community." The moment I realized that wasn't real, and the moment that I like forced myself to realize that wasn't real, I feel like I really let myself try things that I wanted to try, which kind of is part of this whole job that I got.

Katie 

So, I ,for the next year, will be working at my sorority's headquarters. So, I'm a leadership development consultant, I'm a traveling leadership development consultant, which is the craziest thing. If you know anyone that knows me from high school, or like anyone from my hometown, they looked at me like I had four heads when I said I was gonna travel, because I was the kid who would like cry on a plane because I thought it was gonna go down every five seconds, like that was the kind of anxiety I had, and I did not do well with change. I did not do well with like being in new places, and when I knew this job was an option, and when I really decided, like, I think I'm gonna go for it, I kept telling myself, "well, if they give you the traveling one, suck it up, figure it out, because now you got to do it." And that was kind of the mindset I went into it with, whether that's good or bad...

Michaela 

It's great!

Katie 

But I just told myself, like, "well, if you get the job, you can't back out," so that was kind of, I forced myself to do it, and now I'm here, and I have it, and I feel like I've learned enough in college where I can go into it now, and whatever happens, happens, and I'm gonna be okay.

Michaela 

Definitely. I'm so happy for you. I think you're gonna kill it. Katie's the perfect person for the role.

Katie 

Thanks

Michaela 

Truly, though. And I think, like, this is so up your alley, and I know that you're qualified. Those headquarters people know what they're talking about, and you should definitely know that too. I'm so pumped for you, and I think it's like the perfect pipeline for you.

Katie 

I'm really excited.

Michaela 

Yeah.

Katie 

How are you feeling about ....

Michaela 

Oh....

Katie 

Just the sigh. How are you feeling about what's coming next?

Michaela 

I'm feeling hopeful. I think, like ... When you're a dreamer like me, I think settling ... "settling" isn't the right word. That's not the right word, and I don't want people to think I think that, but I think doing something that's a little bit more traditional, or like conforming can feel a little suffocating. Like, I'm getting nervous going into something that so many other people are going into just because... Well, I'm going into sales, for those who don't know. But, shocker, right? I mean ....

Katie 

It's almost like you talk for a living.

Michaela 

But I think, like, growing up dancing, and like having like that theater-esque background, and like always wanting to be the star of the show, and like loving attention, I think ... like, I always thought I would legit be a pop star, like, I'm not kidding, that was, like, really truly what I believed as a child. And so I think, like, reality smacking me in the face is, like ... I'm like, "am I not following my dreams enough?" Like, "am I not doing something that, like, really reaches my fullest potential, am I not maximizing what the world has to offer?" Like, that is one of my biggest fears, is like, going through a normal nine to five life for the rest of my life, that is ... seriously, like, I don't know... That like is very scary to me. And so I think the fact that I like accepted that fate is kind of what's almost like scarier than not having a job for me. On the flip side, I'm so excited to have a job. I'm so excited for whatever this brings me. I'm excited to have, like, co-workers. I'm excited to have a routine. I'm excited to hopefully do something that I'm good at. We will see how it goes? So maybe I'll check back in with Major Insight here.

Michaela 

But I also think, for my people living at home, that is something I'm a little bit nervous for, just because, like, you know, when you like come home, and like the dynamic gets thrown, because like no one's used to you being home anymore, and like they've moved on. And so I think that's gonna be interesting. Like, a very interesting adjustment is like living with a little brother again who's 16 and probably gonna grind my gears, and living with my parents again, and like having to answer to someone. I think college teaches you so much about independence, so it's going to be interesting to, like, still have to follow rules, you know. So, yeah, I don't know. I'm feeling hopeful. I'm feeling uncertain, and I do hope that... I don't know, I don't... I hope it takes me somewhere I have no clue where it's going. And similar to freshman year of college, I hope I have no clue where I will be in four years. Like, that is low key the goal. I hope it totally surprises me, and I hope I keep taking risks and like making interesting decisions that I didn't think I would make. So, yeah, I don't know. I'm feeling... I'm feeling excited, though. I think it'll be good, and like, the dreading it doesn't do much good. So I'm trying to flip my mindset into Katie's mindset.

Michaela 

Because it really is. It's so exciting, and like our lives are really just beginning.

Katie 

Yeah.

Michaela 

I think there's a lot of emphasis on like the doom and gloom, and like college is over, and our lives are over, and the best four years of our lives are over. And it's like, baby, that doesn't have to be the best four years of your life. You can make the next four the best, or the next four, and like there's so much that we have yet to experience, and like your 20s are awesome, too, so sure we're gonna love that.

Katie 

Yeah. Exaclty. Yeah.

Michaela 

So yeah. I don't know.

Michaela 

Excited to see what's to come!

Katie 

Yeah.

Michaela 

Yeah. Well, thanks for coming on, Katie.

Katie 

You're the best.

Michaela 

Happy graduation. You're the best!

Katie 

Happy graduation.

Michaela 

Happy grad to everyone. And ... tears.

Katie 

Tears.

Michaela 

Lit!

Katie 

Yay.

Michaela 

Well, like all good things, even our college adventures must soon come to a close. But while we are excited for everything the future will hold for us both, we're not ready to say goodbye just yet. More special episodes of Major Insight, along with more Sounds of College Life with Katie Caleodis, will return this summer.